When does gay tolerance go too far?

Some of us remember 25-30 years ago when straight guys (and gay ones) started carrying purses and sporting ear-rings. The purses turned out to be a short lived fad (though male purses have a long history from millenia ago into relatively modern times, even preceeding the female purse). But, it was the ear-rings we really found shocking. Outside of pirates and sailors they were pretty much always associated with women. We just knew that fad was going to be short-lived. Well we were wrong, and today many a manly-man flaunts his success by the size of the stud in his ear. Just as designer jeans, ear-rings, piercings in general, braids, corn-rows, beads in the hair, hair twists, pony tails and a host of other things were once considered feminine or gay. Pharell-type purses might end up becoming the height of style. In other words, get over it or if you're a business major maybe consider that todays fad may become a staple and make yourself a good investment.

Odd how so called straight men and women have issues with gays and have a litany of lame reason why they hate and are :"uncomfortable." If, they were secure in their own sexuality and realize that most gay men don't want them, and, that gay men and women have been around from the start of time, they would get own with their own lives. And, the men of Morehouse are more offensive to me than any gay man, as they spew that vile n-word nonstop if you are ever around them, and, they have the gall to be judgmental, and, with that cop out of the bible? Children please,and the writer who seems quite immature with his 6 year old outdated views take on gays, mind your business and lead your life and stop worrying about what other grown folks do in private.

This article is a little anti-gay. While Gerren Gaynor halfway respects gays, he also reinforces heterosexual supremacy. Why should a gay person change who they are to accomodate the prejudices of his heterosexual counterparts? Gaynor's argument about how feminine gay students might contribute to the decline of admissions at Morehouse is prejudice based and homophobic. And to be honest, his views reminds me of an argument a racist person would make to defend segregation against allowing black students to attend a college in Mississippi or something to that effect. While I do respect Gaynor's knowledge about gay diversity and homophobia on his campus, I don't respect his position that feminine gays would hurt Morehouse. A real heterosexual man would not have a problem with gays being around him, unless he feared his own sexuality. Although there are gay students at Morehouse, the heterosexual population is probably still 90 plus times greater. So the threat of gay students taking over Morehouse is exaggerated and homophobic. People should attend Morehouse College because of its educational quality and name recognition.

I think the straight men on campus wouldn't be uncomfortable around gay men if they actually got to know them instead of treating them like aliens. While hair weave and purses may be a little over the top, I'm sure there are openly gay men at Morehouse who are not as flamboyant. Michael Brewer comes to mind. Secondly, just because a gay man is open about his sexuality does not mean he is throwing it in people's faces. When straight guys constantly babble about girls they're dating or want to sleep with are they throwing their heterosexuality in our face? I think not.

One can never go too far in respecting the rights, liberties and individuality of others. I'm more than amazed by the intolerance coming out of black institutions, especially religious ones, whose very existence and greatest leaders and alumni were dedicated to the purpose of fighting such bigotry. You're like the "decent people" of yore who had nothing against the negros as long as they knew and stayed in their place and your phrase 'a "male" lnstitution' brings to mind the veiled references to 'real americans' that we heard during the previous election. First of all, male homosexuals are no less male than male heterosexuals. Furthermore, being offended by people "throwing their lifestyle in your face" while you are attempting to stomp them under your boots really is the height of audacity. If these are the attitudes an institution like Morehouse is breeding these days then maybe it's purpose has outlived its legacy.

Danton, you're right.

This is my thing... So what if guys are challenging the sexist, homophobic, hyper-masculine mentality of black men, by wearing a weave. You ever think about how homosexual men on your campus are constantly bombarded with the hegemony of hetero-identifying males? What the hell are they teaching you guys down there because tolerance is not on what seems to be a very short list. Spewing hate like this on campus only reinforces what you guys seem to be trying to move away from. Think about it like this, as black folks we have got to stop treating our own the way we've always been treated in this country. The way we devalue gay black culture is the way black culture has been traditionally devalued in America. Their hair was straight, ours was "nappy", so they called us monkeys. You wear a wallet he wears a pocketbook, and you wanna call him a woman or a faggot??? Get real man. Look at the legacy yall are following, hate like this is self destructive because every black man, gay or straight has the right to be there and wear whatever he wants....Thanks man

Gerren. Gerren! Another of these bizarre, black inventions but this one sounds especially GAY! I can see from whence your insecurity originates, Gerry, sweetie, but don't blame gays, blame your parents. LOL!

What is really sad is that while Morehouse heterosexual men have noticed and tolerated the influx of homosexual studens on their campus who are open with their sexuality, it becomes out of control only when certain people don't live up to the standards of male heterosexuals at Morehouse. Now if these homosexuals were failing classes and wasting time doing nothing with their lives then that would be an academic issue and not one based on their sexuality. However, I do not know if that is the case. I would agree it is a rather complicated issue, but it seems that Morehouse men are not trying to help their gay brothers but set themselves apart from them. There is no peace in homophobia or ignorance. Morehouse is an institution built on the principles of brotherhood and yet it seems some brothers are being outcasted because of who they are? I think if there should be a gathering about this issue, it should be done constructively, with someone who is a medium among the discussion. Too many times our own beliefs get in the way of what is TRULY REALITY and until a Morehouse man steps up and says..I AM MY BROTHERS KEEPER, then a resolution is not plausible.

Ok I know that this may be hard for the wider comunity to understand but I will say it anyway and hope that some of it sinks in... How can you sit there and tell me that having feminin men in a college for men is a bad thing? Are they not still men? Sexual orientation aside if ths college is a men only college then do not all men have a right to sit side by side equally and learn? I understand your concern as a streight guy that the gay brothers that sit and work with you make you uncomfortable, but I will say this... LIVE WITH IT!!! do you not think that being a gay man in a college full of homophobic streight guys is not stressful enough? It would do nothing but good if you ask me, to have both groups in the same halls, how else do we learn acceptance? The gay men do not wish to be subjected to the homophobic ways of the many, why should they be forced to conform by a society that is too stubborn to learn to get along with each other. And finally, as a streight cross dresser (yes I am a married man that happens to like wearing womens clothing), I think it would be great if they could learn to accept eachother. it would make my job much easier. Learn... WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY!

Stop minding other peoples business. If you don't think men should wear purses, don't wear a purse. You don't like the purses because it makes you feel uncomfortable. I'm sorry you feel that way, but you can't ask them to go out there way to make you feel comfortable with their sexual preference. That is not reasonable. Besides, when you're comfortable with your own sexuality, it shouldn't matter what homosexuals are wearing to class. It doesn't affect your life in any meanigful way.

If transgender males become a problem, Morehouse should implement a policy which follows the gov't guidance on the appropiation of gender. If men become women, they should be forced to leave an all-male school.

I sense you are an intelligent young brotha with the wit of Tucker Carlson. Probably say things which at its basic are true but equally ridiciulous.

Although it's 97^ outside, no one knows if it will "really" snow tonight. God "is" capable of "anything" right.

If fine Morehouse men such as yourself are concerned about the dissolution of your fine institution, please join in with your sisters at Spelman to put an end to the sexism, misogyny, and violence associated with hip-hop music. Of course we can argue which has had the most detrimental effect on our (AA male) 'manhood,' our community and ultimately our nation. The longterm effects of a hypermasculine "image" or a homosexual one.

Then Morehouse can ban any advertisement of hypermasculinty from the campus. No music, advertisements, promotions etc will be allowed on campus. You know how that looks.

Wow, I guess these issues are bound to arise as the world changes and goes through growing pains. I believe that if a man starts to dress as a woman, he should be asked to stop. And if he does not oblige he should be expelled. Not long ago, I think the president of Morehouse decided that men on the campus had to dress in a way that expressed the dignity of the School. If you want to dress a drag queen, transvestite, or transgender you should be expelled. NOT because of orientation, but because it is an all male school. You can't have it both ways fellas. If you feel you were meant to be a woman, then go to a school where women are allowed to enroll. The bigger issue for me is why heterosexual men would care. We have to come to a point in this society where we can see someone who we may disagree with or even be disgusted by (As I am everytime I see young brothers with their pants sagging off their backsides) and not let it affect us. How someone else dresses, lives, or conducts themselves should not affect your daily life. These kinds of arguments only serve to remind some of us of when white folk would have made this same argument. Are we really suppose to sit next to the nigger in school? Share a restaurant? Allow them to move into our neighborhoods? Pretty soon they will take over and where will the world be? Why can't we all live and let live. Let God do the judging. You don't have to agree with someones lifestyle just mind your own business. If you graduate college and get a job at Microsoft making a six-figure salary, are you going to quit if you find a transgender male to female works there? How many black men have been hung, shot and killed because they didn't know their "place" or tried to assimilate in areas where they were clearly not wanted. Just be a man. Learn to go about your business and let others go about theirs. Question: "Is it fair for a straight male to come to an institution where he is forced to live in an environment that makes him feel uncomfortable?" Answer: PS - YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO GO TO THAT COLLEGE. ONE CAN ALWAYS GO ELSEWHERE.

This article ia not only more than a little bigoted, but demonstrates ignorance more than somewhat. Homosexuality and Transgenderism/Transexualism are too different, though superficially similar, phenomenon. the notion that gays will "take the next step and obtain SRS" clearly reveals the authors confusion on the basic outlines of these issues. Gays do not "want to become women so they can have sex with men." I don't know where this idea started, but it seems to have become conventional wisdom, though it is totally wrong. Gays are men, who enjoy being men, who enjoy the company of men. Thus the "homo" in homosexual. If a person experiences a discontinuity between their outward sex and their inwardly perceived gender, then attraction to men would be perfectly natural and not homosexual. Now that the most recent research indicates the gender is located in the brain, and that women and men brains are wired differently, it makes sense to believe that a person can have a woman's brain in a male body. The author needs to go back and do his research first, before venting on how bad he feels that not all men are as hyper masucline as he wishes.

This is bad...plain and simple, bad! There was a time when White people said the exact same thing about Black people...that they "shouldn't act so Black", or how they didn't want Blacks to live in their neighborhood or be themselves...There was a time, not so long ago, that being Black was OK as long as you stayed in your place. What is anyone's place, and who gets to determine that? Grow up and please continue your education. You need a great deal more!

The author of this column shows such profound ignorance about homosexuality it's disturbing. For someone who is college educated the writer lets us all down. This author is preaching "tolerance" of homosexuals yet in the same breath suggesting policies to keep "them" out to preserve the college's "masculine" image. News Flash...not all homosexuals are into weave and having a purse. The use of the term "lifestyle" is annoying enough as if homosexuality is a choice. I suspect the writer of this column has never had a genuine conversation with someone who is gay or else he would not have written such garbage. To the writer of this column I ask...Can tolerance of black people go too far?

Gay tolerance goes too far when "Who you do" matters more in getting ahead than "What you do." What happened to the days when integrity, character, and hard work were the watchwords? Don't get me wrong, Gays have integrity, character, and they deserve respect; but getting a little behind at work is going too far.

My gosh, I am amazed by Mr. Gaynor's column. This is what happens when gays and lesbians of color aren't given a voice in the black community. We are constantly bombarded by these ridiculous stereotypes regarding masculinity and femininity. For the record, homosexuality and transgderism are two separate issues entirely. Being a gay man doesn't necessarily translate to wanting to be transgendered woman. But the sad fact of the matter is that these facts are virtually unknown in the black community. This phony attitude of "I don't have a problem with who you sleep with" is a cop-out. It also speaks to how oversexualized the African-Amercian community can seem (I didn't say is)to be. Sexual orientation goes way beyond bedroom behavior. But so many of us in the black community refuse to learn these things because we refuse to dialogue about these things. When things like what took place with T.D. Jakes's son happen, we get together and gossip. However we refuse to acknowledge that as long as there are mindsets that Mr. Gaynor's column encompasses, we will continue to have ignorance regarding lgbts of color as well as a high HIV/AIDS rate. As long as gay black men and women are bombarded with inaccurate and negative images and have no voice in the black community to combat them, expect more and more problems.

Lets see, gay students who are carrying themselves like young men with a eye towards the future, or so called straight ones looking to become a baby daddy to as many different women as possible? easy to pick which most decent people would prefer. And, good call out on the no-word and how these so called educated Morehouse "men" spew it, they really are clueless and thank goodness not the face of the new and more tolerant America. This silly fear of homosexuality is a joke and they really need to get secure in their manhood and realize wearing a weave as a gay man, although I've never heard such nonsense, or having lots of kids outside of the so called traditional marriage does not make a man. And, maybe if they were like that white guy hitting the books and became valediction instead of being so curious, they would be getting an education about life. Maybe its time for the Morehouse colleges to go the way of other backwards institutions based on race since its obvious they aren't learning too much and intolerance from the "educated" black men is worse than those of the whites who still think they are uneducated at an inferior school.

He couldn't find anything else to write about with all that’s going on in the world. Judging by that picture, his sexuality could be questionable.

It will be interesting when these Morehouse men, a term I use loosely, go to a job interview and find that the same hate and intolerance they have towards gays is directed at them for being black and allegedly straight.

Hip-Hop artists wearing earrings, Black people speaking like white and getting good grade (like Obama) get on my nerve, too. So let's ban all of them.

I guess I'm annoyed at the fact that a man carrying a purse and/or having a weave results in a statement that ALL gays do that and should be conscious of straight guys unease of it. It's like if I said I saw a black man wearing his pants saggin like a child who's pants are too big and are practically by his knees, that I'm uncomfortable seeing people expose themselves like that and that ALL black men need to stop it and find another school to go to. When you state purse, I'm curious if it's a full fledged purple and orange leather frock that is obviously feminine or its it a 'man-purse'. Although, I would even look at a man carrying an orange/purple purse, it doesn't matter what he's carrying because it's none of my business and it has no bearing on my life. I don't like to see men wearing XXXL T-Shirts that fall to their knees as I think it makes them look like they are wearing a dress/moo moo, but again, it's none of my business. But what is my business is that I'm lumped into a group based on the actions of individuals, who have the right to express themselves any way they want. This has nothings to do with 'the gays'. This has to do with your ability to assume there is only one way, your way, to do everything. And if it doesn't fit into your ideals, you say it makes you uncomfortable. One thing I will never understand is, if you are heterosexual, what 'gays' do should never make you uncomfortable because you are not gay. What heterosexuals do never make me uncomfortable because I'm not heterosexual and there is not an iota of interest in the opposite sex in me. So I can never be 'swayed' or uncomfortable. It's the same if you are truly heterosexual. You would not have an iota of interest in the same gender or someone carrying a purse. If you do, then there are other issues that this article should be discussing.

You sound uncomfortable with yourself. The gay issues at Moorehouse will be taken care of in time in their own way without your help; i.e, gay folk have survived the rough waters way before Moorehouse and they willl continue to survive. The Louis Vuitton website is loaded with bags for men and fashionable men with balls enough to carry them with ease do carry them. In fact, I love mine. It has nothing to do with wanting to be a women. I would suggest that you mind your business and let the gay agenda evolve. I am sure there are more things to worry about (such as final exams)on that campus then gay folk.

We seldom have conversations about issues of privilege and oppression within the Black community. I'm a little surprised (perhaps, I shouldn't be) that this young man at Morehouse doesn't have some sense of his own privilege as he writes this article. Based upon my experience with graduates of HBCUs, they generally have a profound sense of the history of privilege and oppression among the racial groups; that type of understanding sometimes makes it easier to grasp differential treatment regarding other socially constructed identities like gender and sexuality. I can only imagine how the heterosexual men at Morehouse talk about women. I only say that because the heterosexual male privilege that comes out of this article is consistent with the types of attitudes that are disrespectful of Black women (Chris Brown, anyone?). The young man might also look into modern world research that stresses that gender and sexuality are not static, one-dimensional expressions. In other words, there is no one way to be a man, and there are so many different ways to express sexuality. We, as Black people, ought to be able to extend that courtesy to people who find themselves sociopolitically placed in sexual and gender minority groups. This young man is wasting a portion of his education at the prestigious Morehouse if he is not learning to think critically about these issues. He actually sounds like he has never been to college. To whom much is given, much is required. That is the burden of privilege. The young black men who go to Morehouse, or any institution of higher education, need to understand about the double-edged sword of privilege. Yes, there are times when you find yourself in the oppressed group; at the same time, you could be the one using your status and position to abuse someone who looks just like you. Do a little bit more self-examination before you leave school, Bruh!

I take all of your comments with the utmost respect and I shall evaluate them just as I would my own. However I think it's sad to see that people can no longer read a opinionated assertion with out counter-bashing; it makes you no better than me. At least I am a young college student who has room to grow and mature, but for many of you there just is no excuse.

How does one not feel a certain way towards straight people when things like this are presented to us? I am so tired of these straight men assaulting, heckling, and bothering gay men, who in most cases, do not want to be bothered, are not interested, etc. What gives anyone the right to deny an effeminate gay or transgendered individual the right to further their education just because you have an IMAGE to maintain? Is this intolerance, inability to accept gays as we are EVER going to change? Why can't we as gays just do our own thing without being made to feel uncomfortable? Why is our presence such a problem? I am so tired of all of it. This is why we gays have to come together. All of this shade and mess that goes on in the gay community, it needs to end. We have enough to deal with from those outside our circle. IE Gerren Gaynor. I say, effeminate gays,transgenders, "QUEENS," open gay men, whatever, my brothers, KEEP ON WORKING your thing. Get your degree and sustain a high level of class so that when all is said and done you can grin all up in the face of these ignorant monsters, degree and career in hand, who just won't give us a BREAK. What bull..."I'm not saying that having gay students at this institution damages the image of Morehouse, however as the only all-male African American liberal arts college in America, we have a certain image to uphold and a man with hair weave just isn't it." So what are you saying? I'll tell you what you are saying, you are saying that the gay Black male is second to the straight Black male. It always kills me when one minority can feel SUPERIOR to the other.

Gerren, that's the price you pay for giving your your opinion. People will disagree vigorously. As long as they don' threaten you, then live with it. Disagreeing is not the same things as bashing. Leave that victimhood card to Ann Coulter

Looks like Morehouse has become an elite Black tower academy for priveleged heterosexual Black men, kinda an exclusive (not inclusive) billionaire boys club. Too bad for a place that had such prestige, but not a complete surprise. When you isolate people by making them "Black" or "Men" or any other label you make them think they're different than other folk. What's next, Gerren? Don't like Hispanic women? Religious Jews? Postal guys who wear uniforms?

I agree with Diane. I believe this essay is really about gender “norms” than it is about homosexuality/homosexuals. Its less about sexuality than it is about what it means to be a man and yet even more specific how we as black men are to convey masculinity. Furthermore, the “concerns” regarding masculinity, appear superficial geared toward the “cosmetic” appearance of masculinity. I feel this is truly sad. At no point is character addressed regarding straights, gays, feminine men, masculine men and so forth. I thought Morehouse (and for that matter college in general) was more concerned with character and education than outward appearances. As a gay male whose life is lived beyond ghettoes (gay or otherwise) I often receive comments from heterosexuals/homosexuals, men and women, of diverse race, class, and generations regard the level of my “strong” masculinity in look, character, and personality. While many male (especially straight males) are quick to bond and give me major props for my level of masculinity, while as a single man (I’m in a 7 year committed relationship) I had no problem “tapping ass” morning, noon, and night if I chose, I find on a personal level masculinity is often narrowly defined. My point being, as I am a black male constantly “complemented” on my masculinity, I also find the very masculinity I’m being complimented on narrow. I am authentic. The masculinity I exude is organic. There’s nothing made up or phony about me. However, I relish and encourage any and all men- particularly black men, to challenge gender norms! As I stated to my best friend on several occasions, “when I come back and if I have to do this all over again, I’d rather be Noah!” referring to the confident, carefree, gender defying lead title character of the black gay sitcom. I feel the greatest gift black men can give to future generations of black men is a more expansive and broader perspective of masculinity. What’s further disturbing, as with most areas involving gender/gender “norms,” the problem really isn’t sexual orientation. I believe the underlining issue is hostility towards (read- fear of) femininity, “weakness,” passivity, submission. Internalized fears of weakness/femininity and insecurity regarding ones own authentic masculinity/manhood is more easily acted out/upon those who have “given up” or relinquished the highly coveted social capital of man/masculinity. Gays/feminine men/the transgender populations are seen as those who’ve given up their masculinity- this “given up” might as well be a bulls eye attracting attack, contempt, and disdain. Particularly hostility from traditionally marginalized men- men of color, men who are/have been displace, disenfranchised, and some may add targeted for extinction/genocide. Bottom line, I hope the Morehouse brothers continue to wear purses and challenge gender norms and stereotypes. More power to y’all. Big Ups!

This is the type of mis/understanding that happens when people can't differentiate between sexual orientation and gender identity. They are two different things, and the author makes an assumption that they are one-in-the-same. It does a disservice to those who are gay and definately those who are transgender. Gerren asks the question, "Is it fair for a straight male to come to an institution where he is forced to live in an environment that makes him feel uncomfrotable?" Let us ask that straight male, what makes him feel so uncomfortable knowing that LBGTQ people are around him. Then we should ask him if it's fair to force heteronormativity on us when this leads to damaging results. More too often people of color are asked to pass as white in order to be accepted by the heteronormative society. What he is advocating for is quite in the same spirit as what white people have forced upon people of color to do. Is that wrong? Yes it's very much wrong. People should act in accordance to what feels authentic to them.

I've always been intrigued by the way limits are placed on people's tolerance as it pertains to OTHER people. In this case, we're--rather,Gerren Gaynor--is willing to accept homosexuality and homosexual men, but on HIS terms. Who does Gaynor (interesting surname) thinks he is to tell others how to express themselves? Rather, who is ANYONE to impose limits on the expression of one's freedom! We are all aware of what Morehouse is: an all-male college; however, we are also aware of the social constructions of what makes a "man" and a "woman." Weave does NOT a woman make! There are so many issues that this article didn't even bother to confront. It's rudimentary, at best. As for heterosexual men feeling uncomfortable, maybe Mr. Gaynor need speak to gay students who have confronted a group of heterosexual men and, being solitary, had to not only suffer stares, taunts, and comments, but may have also encountered violence. In New York City, we are fortunate in that just about every conceivable walk of life and manner of person roams our streets. I imagine the ridiculudicrosity of trying to prohibit Jews from wearing their traditional headgear, or limiting goths to only one article of black clothing, because, after all, we are a civilized society and one can't possibly be civilized if these things are present! The fact is, we all have rights. Gerren Gaynor has the freedom of speech and press and gay men have the right to express themselves in any manner they see fit, be it low-rise jeans, halter tops, or even a weave. An individual's self-expression is uniquely his, and Morehouse should concern itself with providing a quality education for someone who is biologically a man . . .whatever that looks like!

Man, you have ISSUES! First of all, Morehouse is a good school. But it's reputation does not rise and fall on whether or not there are gay men there. Here's a newsflash: EVERY SCHOOL HAS GAY MEN. There is nothing so special or fragile about Morehouse that it cannot tolerate openly gay students. So get over the Morehouse Mystique line of bull you were fed at orientation. Secondly, as another poster has stated, if you don't like men being flamboyant or carrying purses--don't be that man. Mind you business. The entire tone of this article reflects insecurity of Black men. The idea that a few bad apples are going to spoil it for the rest of us. Please! You need to get out more often and give the public a little more credit than you have given it. People know how to distinguish individuals from groups of people. The mere fact that people might discover that there are gay men at Morehouse (Gasp!) seems to strike fear in your heart. This article is homophobic at its core and does not reflect well upon Morehouse. Seek counseling before you do more harm.

Gerren Gaynor, we are only providing constructive criticism about your article. See, your words offends most of us because it is based on typical anti-gay prejudice that we are used to dealing with everyday. While you are a still a young man, you need to briefly study sexual orienation, heterosexism, homophobia, and transgenderism. If anyone should be upset, it should be us because you are a member of the dominate group who seeks to oppress and keep us in our place.

"However I think it's sad to see that people can no longer read a opinionated assertion with out counter-bashing" So then, Gerren, you admit that you were bashing in the first instance? If so, thanks for the honesty - but nothing else.

Gay or Straight, ALL Morehouse Negroes are pathetic. Ya'll let a WHITE BOY become the valedictorian last year, truly pathetic and a low moment in African American History. The Morehouse Negro is little more than a buffoon in '09 and to all students I look you in the face and say, "N_gger Please".

Hi. Clearly there is an entire portion of people that you are unaware about. About their oppression and marginalisation and the deliberate erasure of them from public life and history. You see Transgender people have existed through all cultures and all recorded history. Sometimes gender variance was taboo and sometimes it was revered! This doesn't just include people who are born with male bodies but are female inside but a wide degree of variations which include people who are androgynous and others who alternate between masculinity and femininity. So while you could suggest that Transsexuals should go to the women's college there's going to be some who go to either which vary in the degree and extent of their masculinity and femininity and they too have as much right to an education as anyone else. Now how could it possibly be fair or reasonable to suggest that only some of these people should be able to get a college education? Or that they must pretend to be more manly in order to get their education? Clearly that is not just. It's not just about gays. TG people come in every variation just like everyone else. Maybe you should try and talk with and become friends with some of the gay and effeminate people you mention. You will find that each is an individual. They can be as biased and bigoted and as tolerant and good as any other group of humans. Their blood is just as red as yours. Some you will not get along with and some you will become good friends with just like with any other person. Give it a try. Try and learn about and understand the people before you judge them. Meet a variety of the people so you dont judge all of them on just a few. Learn about their struggles, about the biases and discrimination that they face. See their strengths and weaknesses, their defences and vulnerabilities, their failures and their successes. See their humanity. And I am certain that once you do you will be proud of those friends that you make. You will stand by them gladly and speak up in their defence and they in turn will do so in yours. And remember... antiseptic stings http://caveofrationality.blogspot.com/2008/10/antiseptic-stings.html when bathrooms and water fountains were desegregated many white folk were uncomfortable. When Aboriginals were let into swimming pools with whites over here in Australia plenty of white folk were uncomfortable. When women were let into the workplaces that had been exclusively male plenty of those men were uncomfortable. This is the same phenomenon as those. The discomfort will pass with time. The discomfort you feel is the sting of antiseptic, the itching of a healing wound. It accompanies all shifts from injustice to justice. Make some TG friends and some Gay friends. Learn, understand. It will be good for you, good for them, good for the college and good for the community.

Gerren Gaynor "I think it's sad to see that people can no longer read a opinionated assertion with out counter-bashing; it makes you no better than me. At least I am a young college student who has room to grow and mature, but for many of you there just is no excuse." Real men, gay or straight or transgender, take responsibility for their action. They don't try to be the victim, they don't blame everyone else. Nobody came to counter-bash, they gave back to you so you could "grow and mature."

I must say I find this outlook rather surprising, particularly coming from a member of a group that has worked so hard at being judged by their merit, rather than their appearance.

He's doing with the dominate group always does in society; they attack a marginalize group and then play victim when people of that group challenge their beliefs. As gay folks who also happen to be black, we definitely know what it's like. They have a problem with us if we challenge their comfort. I see this all the time with the white students at my school, and as a black gay person, racism and homophobia are the same.

"Tolerance" knows no boundaries. That's all I need to say.

Quote and refined from the article: "I'm not saying that having Blacks in this country damages the image of the United States, however as the democratic and free country in the world, we have a certain image to uphold and a Balck man sitting in the White House just isn't it." (this is concept the author of this article really promoing)

Hey Gerren bo seriously, my digitz - anytime for a hook up?

i like to do blow job...email me ..anojan82@gmail.com

Mr. Gaynor, Are you being serious? I highly recommend transferring to a more conservative school or leaving the U.S. perhaps. I'm sure you'll fit right in "conservative" Jamaica. They just love them some gays in Jamaica! Gerren find a life and complain about something that doesn't waste another persons time. To represent "Moorehouse" in such a negative way during Black History Month is truly beneath the purpose of all black institutions. As a student debates help you learn more about others, ignorance gets you nowhere. You should focus on your studies and stay out of everyone's business.

Bayard Rustin is turning over in his grave! Do you have so much as a clue as to who he was Mr. Gaynor? I doubt it. I am 62 years old, gay and black. The gay comes first, and not by "choice," s I have been told off in no uncertain terms by African-American men and women as they repeatedly slammed the door in my face (literally as well as metaphorically) once they "found out." I've been extremely lucky in only facing physical violence for being gay once in my life. And the perp was black. Of course.

At Morehouse, young black male minds are being fertilized by more senior ones and well...young men are expected to learn, work and play together. The scene is almost pederastically Hellenic with the obvious exception that its conservative, Christian moorings inhibit physical sex in a direct rejection of the possibility of 'feminization' - the ultimate unmaking of what aims to be a thoroughly and intimately masculine project. The image to be upheld, as Gerren has intimated, is one of cyclical, staid, impotent, homoerotic hypermasculinity founded upon conservative, Victorian ideals. The image is not to be one of critical scholarship and engagement. Morehouse is to be understood in Hellenic terms as a gymnasium fixated on the production and enhancement of male bodies and the reproduction of rigid masculinities. The commitment to maintaining this image is made in direct opposition to change. The school is a relic, an artefact and this is how we must begin to consider it. In this way I am fascinated by Gerren's statements. Fascinating too is the idea that 'feminine' men can perform their way into the Morehouse image. Importantly, the entire facade facilitates the persistent denial of self; an ongoing ascetism that plagues the black community and establishes a dependence on performative texts - like images.

The comments to this article is are almost as bad as the worst things I read about Obama during the primary when people didn't agree or like him at all. What some of you have written is a far cry from the tolerance you seem to ask of Gerren. He is a young man and as he stated, his views have a way to go toward maturity. But, I have seen similar ignorance (if you call is such) from many on this site before. Only a different subject matter.

Let's face it, as younger gays become more comfortable and more open than those of us who are older. I have seen it with my own two eyes. They are much bolder than anything I've seen. A straight man feeling uncomfortable around certain gays is no different than women feeling uncomfortable around certain straight men. It's the laws of attraction. Gays should understand that before crying homophobia and bigotry.

I don't agree in whole with everything that Gerren said. But I don't have to. He has his opinion and we have our own. He didn't form his opinion out of the womb and neither did we.

WOW!!! Really??? How can you possibly believe that someone's lifestyle is hurting the image of a school? You are in an institution of higher education and yet your writing suggests that you havent yet grasped that concept. As a former student at Morehouse, I find that trying to promote an image that only straight men attend this college is horrific. Yes..gay men attend Morehouse, but the underlining factor is that they are still men. What I look like, what I wear and who I sleep with does not give you or any persons the right to say that first I am less of a man and secondly that just because some persons have a problem with me that I dont belong. As I recall, many of a persons had issues with Blacks, and went as far a lynching. Has it gotten to the point that the image of Morehouse is more important than its manifesto? Seriously?? One last thought? Have you ever thought about that if you are wanting to become a syndicated columnist that the person interviewing you could be gay and he is one of those gays that you take issue with?

These are the questions asked when stupidity is the forum moderator. Not all gay men are effeminate so stop painting all gay men with the same brush. Stop talking about a gay lifestyle. A lifestyle is whether you fly private jets or coach. A lifestyle whether you have a personal shopper or a blue light special. Some gay men do circuit events. Some gay men are in relationships and when finances allow, take a vacation with their partners and most gay men fall in a wide and varied spectrum in between. We are monolithic creatures. I don't have a gay lifestyle. I'm a gay man and I have a life. If there is a problem with how some of the gay men on campus dress or carry themselves, instill a dress code and a code of conduct that ALL students must adhere to. Didn't the NBA do the same thing not so very long ago due to concerns of it's image? Just as you don't want the gay men carrying purses or dressing like women, you shouldn't want the straight men in oversized hip hop lifestyle attire, looking like thugs or prison inmates. Just like don't want the gay men walking like women, you shouldn't want the straight men walking like apes. While questioning the comfort level of students, ask the same questions about the gay students and whether or not their feelings should be ignored. Or bypass all of this inconvenience and put a ban on the acceptance of gay students to the school. If you are a private institution that does not collect federal and or state taxes dollars, this can be done in your bylaws. Look at Brigham Young University for the example. If they'll take a call from your Black behind. Oh that's right, Morehouse is still open because of State and Federal aid. State and Federal aid which comes from the purses of gay men and women as well as the oh so cherished and exalted heterosexual community, lifestyle, whatever. As a matter of fact, since gay marriage is only legal in two of the fifty states, more tax money comes out of a gay man or woman's purse than their straight counterparts who can rest comfortably in the joys of financial gain through marriage contracts...but that's another issue. The truth is now as it always has been; any man who is both sure and secure in his sexuality doesn't have the time to concern himself with what or who another man is doing. PERIOD

I give the author props for posting in the comments, but his defensive response leads me to believe he didn't think people would pull his card and check him for what he wrote.

As a gay male at Morehouse- who's open with my sexuality, I agree with this article. I find it degrading and undeniably a form of mockery to our campus when seeing guys walk around with "hair weaves" and "pocketbooks". With that, please note that not all gay men on Morehouse's campus act like this.. And that I'm sure you all would be surprised at the response of how many gay men on campus are offended when seeing this as well. For 142 years, Morehouse has been a college for men- and only men. Sexuality does not determine your manhood. By all means, I respect everyone, even if you are carrying a purse- but If you feel that is part of your expression, why bring it to an ALL MALE school... especially one that puts heavy emphasis on "entering as boys..leaving as men?" So I leave with this question, If you're going to conduct yourself in that manner, why not just choose a school that's unisex?

Anthony, I would find it hard to believe if this is the first time Gerren has met such vitrolic responses to his comments. I'm sure that he has.

Gays should not all be lumped into the same category and neither should heterosexual men. Every straight man who has a problem w/gays isn't homophobic. Every straight man who throws up at the thought of two men having sex isn't homophobic. Every man who feels uncomfortable around gays isn't homophobic nor a closet case himself. I've known gays who are not comfortable around straight men. It doesn't mean that they are heterophobic. We all have different levels on comfort.

We can't expect "not" to be lumped in when we do the same thing ourselves. However wrong it may be, there are norms in society. A man dressing up and acting like a woman isn't one of those. If I were straight, I'm sure I would be a bit miffed by a preponderance of women dressing/acting men on an all male campus.

To demonstrate the ignorance which has no gender, please refer to the posters above who invited Gerren to engage in sex with them.

Yes, unsolicited advances from gay men is a problem.

Man of Morehouse---Good for you and I agree.

Tolerance has limits, but acceptance knows no limits. The author of this article should try to incorporate acceptance in his writings, pariculary when his writings are about a group of people that he clearly has such a disdain for. When I was a student at Morehouse and when we sang "so to bind each son the other into ties more brotherly", i didn't think it was only meant for my heterosexual brothers or masculine brothers. Homosexuality isn't a new issue at Morehouse. I'm sure classes of yesteryear dealt with it. However, the only difference is, they knew how to keep what went on at the 'House in the 'House.

Don't we have more important things to discuss than this? This kind of gossiping or speculation sounds kind of girl-ish to me. There were and always will be homosexual men attracted to and part of the all-male demographic that is Morehouse. What's the big deal? Gay men are everywhere in society. To be honest with you, I always thought the gay guys on campus weren't a problem. It just meant more Spelman for me (LMAO). People who knew me, knew I liked women and just because I attended a college that was "more accepting of homosexual students" definitely did not mean I was homosexual. If you're straight, you should be secure enough in your manhood not to be intimidated by someone who is gay. Some of my best friends from college are gay. One of the best street racers on the East Coast is out of Maryland, has been an acquaintance of mine since the mid nineties, and is very openly gay (and I dare you to call him out at the starting line- he's running a true street-legal 9-sec Mustang). I have gay guy friends (and lesbian and bi female friends) who I treat and who treat me as just another friend. Sure I've been hit on by gay men but most, once I've let them know that I'm not gay, respect my stance and have been cool ever since. Now, as for hair weaves and purses, I don't think that's a gay-thing rather it’s a bad taste-thing. Men (and women) sporting outlandish hair weaves are a sign of bad taste, not sexual orientation. You young guys need to realize what really important and get back on track. We have a Black man in the White House who is trying to make things better for all of US. Shouldn't we be figuring out how we can help him do that AND who is going to be ready to pick up the reigns after he leaves office in eight years (YEAH, I said eight years!!!) rather than worrying about this?

Gerren "Gay"nor you just received a valuable educational lesson - one that you obviously aren't getting at Moorehouse. Learn from all of these comments. Remember, you just cannot throw your thoughts out there and not expect to get comments from people who believe in themselves. It took some of us years to accept ourselves and when we read comments like yours, we will respond passionately. Our feelings aren't going to be hurt anymore -- your's will be -- on purpose or indirectly. I feel that you did not mean any harm, but some of the respondents didn't take it that way. I wish you well in your educational goals and your growing up.

Gerren, I've edited your essay. What do you think? It's no secret that the black population on XXXX's campus does not go unnoticed. Take a walk down Brown Street on a clear spring day, and one will quickly learn that XXXX College is an institution unlike no other for reasons far more than the "XXXX Mystique." Although Dr. Franklin has urged men of XXXX on various occasions to treat each other with the utmost respect (especially black students), I notice the prevailing discomfort between our white students and their black counterparts. You know how it goes: a cluster of openly black students walk by, and a group of white students suddenly stop what they're doing to either avoid making any contact whatsoever, or look on with a sense of disgust. Or when class discussions happen to run on the topic of race, and that one openly black student steps up to the plate to defend himself and his lifestyle. The silence in the classroom is one of much uneasiness for no one wants to counter-respond in fear of coming off too strong. Awkward? I don't want to get into the religious, scientific, or philosophical explanations and connotations of race; however, I do find that this taboo subject merits great conversation. This lovely man-producing institution, XXXX College, contains many black students, some openly and others not so much. White students, through their unsettlement with this reality, tend to make black slurs within the comfort of their friends, and black students do whatever it is that they do behind close doors. That's the reality. Over the years, despite social divergence on campus, the XXXX community has done their share to both accept and adjust to the growing black population. But don't you think this has gone too far? A boy with a doo rag is far. It's not so much that "white" men of XXXX are uncomfortable with the black lifestyle, but more so because it is constantly and quite robustly thrown in their face. Does being a black man include adopting the traits of a black man? Because if that's the case, there's a more fitting school, and it's called Morehouse College. I'm all for being who you are. If you like black women, go on and date black women. If you like black men, be my guest and date black men. But if you are born a certain race, you should be act like a person of that race. If I have to look twice to tell if I'm looking at a black or white person, then something is tragically wrong. At this rate, XXXX College may find itself in a difficult situation. What happens if and when one of our white XXXXX brothers decides to go the next step and actually become black, and is then physically considered to be black? Does XXXX have the right to ask that student to leave? A massive population of black males and possible really black students could critically damage the reputation of XXXX and perhaps decline the amount of admissions, significantly impacting the college. Would it be wrong for XXXX to implement a new acceptance procedure in which they are required to interview students, in an attempt to decrease black population? Now of course such a process is not likely to succeed, however something must be done before XXXX College, an all "white" institution, becomes something quite the opposite in the years to come. One may argue that XXXX should allow their students to live as they please, but in these circumstances, one must begin to accept that this once black-and-white matter has become a rather gray, complicated issue. It is true that some men of XXXX have failed to honor and respect their black brothers. Yet, the feelings and presence of white students should not be ignored. Is it fair for a white male to come to an institution where he is forced to live in an environment that makes him feel uncomfortable? Because I'm quite sure that if he wanted to be surrounded by blacks, he would have gone to Morehouse University. I'm not saying that having black students at this institution damages the image of XXXX , however as the only all-white liberal arts college in America, we have a certain image to uphold and a man with Rocawear clothes just isn't it. Sound familiar? Rick

I say as long as they(gay men) are not advocating about Marriage and DADT, I say live and let live. I be more concern about the low enrollment rate of black students at HBCU's.

Gerry, freedom of speech goes both ways. Disagreeing with you is not "counter-bashing". If you are going to make such idiodic assertions, like all gay men are just waiting to take the "next step" and become women, don't be crying in your corn flakes if people call you out. Obviously, there are not nearly enough classroom discussions about sexual orientation, not too many. BTW, if you are worried about Morehouse's "image", let me remind you of two words: Aaron Price.

Rick that was great!! Let's hope the gay men at Morehouse that are disgusted with effeminate men read it and learn. For all those who misread Gerren, it's not about gay or straight, it's about your swag. With all the problems in the world and all the work that Morehouse men have to do, they are really caught up with another man's swag. Thas some sad ish. No wonder my daddy didn't want me going there.lol. With conservative ideas like these it's no wonder the HBCUs in the south have a serious problem staying ahead of the curve. Gerren, baby, I'm not mad at you. I just don't know (or maybe it's that I know all too well) what kind of future you will have, esp. with a Morehouse education (if that's what they really produce). All the best.

According to Ostend Street, the posts here are emotionally-tinged responses to a perceived slight against gays. Therefore justifying the counter insults. Do the insults and heterophobia open the doors of communication between gays and straights? No it doesn't. Does it prove your points any better? Not really. Does it get a load off your chests? You betcha!

What Gerren wrote is no more demonstrative of how most straight than man-purses (or whatever they are called) are commonplace amongst gay men. Tolerance is not a one way street. Just because you are aggrieved should not make it ok to close off discourse. Gerren was no doubt right in this counterbashing and by looking at the responses, the bashers feel justified in bashing because--well they've been bashed too. LOL@the thought.

Gerren you have some growing to do but as indicated by the responses, so do many of us. Growth and maturity is not limited to an age group, gender or sexual orientation. Whether or not the rampant gender confusion found within the gay community should have found a place in this particular article is suspect. But, it is a subject that doesn't get enough play--even amongst gays.

By the way, you do not have to feel guilty about not being 100% supportive of gays or modes of expression. Many people are not.

Look midwestern guy or whoever you are, I don't need you or anyone else explaining what I wrote or why I wrote it. My comment to you and your pontificating would be to mind your business and back off of me. No one asked for your pontificating just like no one asked for Mr. Gerren's remark. Normally, your comments are interesting, but this time around I don't think a defense for this homophobic nonsense from Gerren in necessary. Again, mind your businesss too!!

Talk about hypocricy---four hours ago, I posted a retort to Mr. Gaynor in which I reposted his entire essay word-for-word, except replacing the words "homosexual" and "gay" with "black", in order to highlight how some might find the tone and tenor of his essay similar to the way that whites treated blacks as second class citizens during school desegregation. Four hours later it is gone. What's wrong Daily Voice? Hit a little too close to home?

It's still there Rick. MidwestGuy is deeply involved in the politics of the obvious i.e. we all have a little growing to do. I don't know about you all, but I filed that under old and uninteresting facts. But if you're going to be apologetic just kiss Gerren's ass and let that be the end of it. It's a lot more direct, honest and grown up of you than pussyfooting around the issue and pretending to be some sage, mediating voice of reason. I mean when does heteroBS tolerance go too far...huh?

How far Gay tolerance goes depends on the individual not the Homosexual. One cannot demand acceptance for what they do, but instead it must come for who they are. Screaming in the middle of Morehouse, "I'm Gay" won't earn respect. Writing an article about it is biased because you are advocating a position that isn't openly accepted or practiced outwardly in public. One should expect to receive negative commentary. Actually, I think the commentary here was rather tame. What are we talking about anyway men who'd like to spend more time with men in jail getting to know each other in far more ways than society is ready to accept? What are we advocating a public display of erections? The comments here were tame.

Ostend no need to get indignant over the comments I made. You and others have allowed your "hurt" or personal feelings about the subject to get in the way of what could have been a rather insightful discussion where various views are acknowledged and discussed. Isn't that the whole point of tolerance? Acceptance? Respect?

I haven't defended homophobia and if you bothered to read, I was critical of parts of Gerren's rationale. That is a fact which should not be so easily thrown aside just to belittle my opinion. On this subject, diverging points of view are often met with namecalling, insults (and in this case) sexual advances from 'aggrieved' gays. And that's tolerance? That's the maturity we claim Gerren lacks?

Really?

Well Midwest Guy

Don't you think sexual advances from any person is a bad thing? especially in this day and time and in our community? GAY OR NOT!

Personally the article was childish

This conversation sounds like a conversation that would have been had during the 50s and 60s by white men trying to decide if they should admit black students. Discrimination is discrimination. If Morehouse can accept white men, why should they discriminate against their brothers? Besides, you may not be able to visually tell a man is gay.

How are straight men feeling threatened by the increasing number of gay men at Morehouse? Shouldn’t gay men feel threatened for every conversation they have to listen to regarding straight people’s relationships? How long does the gay black man have to fear bringing up who he loves or is interested in because of some straight man’s misplaced fear. If he approaches it honest will he be beaten, attacked, taunted and later shrugged off as a “unwanted advance” Men should be allowed to express them in a way that is comfortable to them. Black people have had a problem with gays for years. It started in the 50’s with those jet magazines stating that homosexuality was deviant behavior. And the church collectively has split more families rather than focus on the message of Christ’s unconditional love. For too long, black men have felt the need to hide instead of being exactly who they are… Too many men today spend too many hours degrading black men by calling them punks, saying they aren’t “real men”. Since when did the definition of manhood become a direct correlation to who he sleeps with, or whether or not he produces children? I was appalled by the author’s ideology even though I believe he’s entitled to his own opinion. But whether a man carries a purse, sleeps with men, is moot, people have a right to be themselves. The word gay and black is often the “elephant” in the room that no one wants to speak of and when you speak of the black community it isn’t just straight black people, but black gays and lesbians as well.

Again, back off me and mind your business Midwest Guy. You are still defending immature foolishness. I am so sure that if Gerren spent more time studying he would not have half as much time worrying about who is carrying a purse or who has a hair weave. There are certain standards that I know exist at this higher institution of learning but this brother is making me take a very dim view of this institution because of his attitude towards other human beings who might be different from him. The civil rights movement was born out of people treating others differently. Yes, I am indignant that this creepy attitude still exist in 2009. The institution of learning is Morehouse not Moron. Now Midwest Guy if you don't like my retort --- that's just too bad!!

Again, back off me and mind your business Midwest Guy. You are still defending immature foolishness. I am so sure that if Gerren spent more time studying he would not have half as much time worrying about who is carrying a purse or who has a hair weave. There are certain standards that I know exist at this higher institution of learning but this brother is making me take a very dim view of this institution because of his attitude towards other human beings who might be different from him. The civil rights movement was born out of people treating others differently. Yes, I am indignant that this creepy attitude still exist in 2009. The institution of learning is Morehouse not Moron. Now Midwest Guy if you don't like my retort --- that's just too bad!!

MidWestGuy, don't be an apologist for someone's prejudice against you. Gaynor and others think that we are clearly inferior to them. Look at Gaynor's example of how he is worried about gay men leading to the decline of admissions at Morehouse. C'mon! We're gay people of color! We have a history of dealing with similar language from racists.

Midwest Guy, while rationalism may be a preferred response, one cannot fault another for screaming in reaction to being kicked.

I am a straight Black man but I love love love Black Gay men. The smart straight man knows that's just more ass for him :) Yup. Gay Black men have lowered my cost of dating, saved me time, simplified my life. Thanks to the Black Gay Man, I am more prized and appreciated by women. Any straight Black man that has any issue of any kind with Gay Black men is an idiot! Straight men, the Gay Black man is your friend! Thank you gay Black men, I seriously owe a debt of gratitude to you for letting me have a nice run of 5 years of free and easy sex with some of the baddest women in NYC. I've since gotten married, but I do appreciate the Gay Black man.

Gerren, you question whether its fair for "a straight male to come to an institution where he is forced to live in an environment that makes him feel uncomfortable?" Is it any more fair for gay students to have to live in an environment where they're uncomfortable? The fact is that many generations of gay men have just done that because they were raised to believe that they had to hide, doing "whatever it is that they do behind closed doors", so that others would be more comfortable in, acting like they didn't exist. But they do exist. And the reality is that many of us have left those legacies of shame behind, and refuse to walk in the shadows just to avoid tension. And the fact is that Morehouse College, just like the rest of the world, will have to adapt to this reality. It will happen today or tomorrow, but it will happen- because it is the reality of now. And believe it or not, gays and straights can co-exist. Here’s how: the next time you see a man walking on campus carrying a purse, let him walk. Notice it, feel how you feel about it and move on. The next time there's a debate in class and the topic of homosexuality comes up, debate it, say your peace, then get on with your life. The next time a guy gets the urge to use a "gay slur"- don't. Don't fall into the old comfort zone saying, “that’s just how it is", or "that's how it’s always been. Challenge yourselves to say, "that was then & this is now". Your issue isn’t one of tolerance, its acceptance. Accept that you now have to share space with openly gay men. It doesn't make you gay, it doesn't mean you endorse homosexuality, it doesn't mean you'll be expected to carry a purse too. It simply means that that these gay Morehouse Men have as much right to be there as the straight ones. And they're not willing to hide for the sake of someone else's comfort. And Gerren, as you continue to mature and figure out what you believe and why, I hope that you will come to understand that being a man has nothing to do with whether you carry a purse.

On Nov. 4, 2002, a Morehouse College student sustained a fractured skull inflicted by a classmate, sophomore Aaron Price. Price beat his victim in the head with a baseball bat, allegedly for looking at him in the shower. Yes, Morehouse "men" are the true standard of African-American manhood. God forbid that their tenuous hold on their own sexuality be challenged by a man with a purse or someone seeing them in the shower (Aaron Price should have just showered in his underwear if he were that insecure.). Maybe the man with a purse has diabetes and needs his glucose meter and insulin with him at all times. Maybe he has AIDS and needs more medication than he can carry in his pocket. Or, maybe he just has a fabulous purse and has mistakenly given Morehouse "men" more credit than they deserve, assuming that they are man enough to accept and respect people who are different from themselves. If you are uncomfortable with something that someone else is carrying (with obvious exceptions for illegal weapons and baseball bats in the shower room, etc.) then the problem rests with you. Gerren Gaynor, it is time for you and your immature friends who can't make eye contact or avoid looking on with disgust to GROW UP. If the way that you are acting is typical of a Morehouse "man" then I suggest you drop the Morehouse thing and just become a man. The man with a purse probably has some sage advice on the subject.

Andre W. you really hate this college, don't you?

Midwest guy: age has nothing to do with it. Because for sure James Baldwin was braver than you. I'm a 100% sure that a young James would have told Gerren to go jump a cliff.

Mr. Chris, sexual advances are commonplace in society. That does mean that lesbians should make sexual advances towards heterosexual women. Neither is it an excuse to do it here although no gay man seems to have a problem with that.

Ostend, it takes an hour or so to write an article. I believe that Gerren more than likely spends quite a bit of time studying. Very few people write for the college newspaper without being good student. You can have a dim view of Morehouse (based on this article). Conversely, heterosexuals can have a dim view of gays based on these responses. I don't have to be defending foolishness by acknowledging that fact.

Danton, you are partly correct. People should sometimes scream when kicked. In this case, don't be surprised when you are then kicked again. The Isaiah Washington and Rick Warren episodes show two different responses to gay outrage with one possible leading to the indifference shown towards the other.

Saintrage, you can pull out examples of gay men gone rogue and use it a justification for being against gays. Not all men have to like seeing grown men and boys walk around with their asses out looking like inmates. We complain al the time about how it "looks" and feel justified in the criticism. Not all men have to like seeing other men and boys walk around looking like women. People can also complain about how it "looks" and feel justified in that position as well. Though both groups seem to use "freedom of expression" as a defense.

Midwest -- Get a life!! I've certainly moved on from this nonsense. My statements have been made.

Midwest, do you and Gerren have a thing going because you doth protest too much!!

I really hope that you just wrote this article to cause a stir and get some attention. I just can't imagine any intelligent young man at such a fine liberal arts institution actually believing this. "Would it be wrong for Morehouse to implement a new acceptance procedure in which they are required to interview students, in an attempt to decrease gay population?" Wait, you want your college to implement homophobic policies, just like colleges used to implement RACIST policies in order to keep black students out of white schools? Really? Is that what you're saying? "Suck it, Martin Luther King Jr.! Eat it, Rosa Parks!" Gerren says we should undo what you worked so hard for. Bring back segregation!

Just reading this thread shows why black men are still at the bottom of every rung of society in this country, those old slave mentalities about what makes a "real man." Pitiful since to the average citizen of this planet, it makes not one difference your sexuality, you are still hated the same, and, need to work together, and, these so called straight men need a clue, the average gay man does not want you anymore than the average black woman.

Your issues with "a man being a man" is about GENDER identity. Sex and gender are often used synonymously, but the words are very different. Sex is your genitalia - what's between your legs and often refers to what you were born with. Male or Female are the only options - unless there has been some birth defects to screw everything up - which does happen, but is rare. Gender on the other hand is about how you identify your self sexually - Gender is a scaled measure - the extremes would be feminine and masculine, and nuetral is well, androgenous. One can be a feminine female or male or masculine or androgenous female or male. What makes this all more complicated is that gender has nothing to do with whom you like to have sex with - that's sexual preference. And it is this last category that results in the labels homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual. Our social norms are Female, Feminine, Heterosexual and Male, masculine, heterosexual. Other variations are noted and some are tolerated more than others such as female, androgenous, hetero/bi-sexual or male, masculine, homsexual (closeted) but the combinations are endless.

"You know how it goes: a cluster of openly gay students walk by, and a group of heterosexual students suddenly stop what they're doing to either avoid making any contact whatsoever, or look on with a sense of disgust." Please, black people do that to each other regardless of sexuality. The women do it, the men do it. We are our own worst enemies. We constantly cut each other down and treat each other poorly when we should be trying to work together. Who cares if a person is gay or straight??! If you're black, you're family to me.

Karl, Wow! I think you just read my mind or something b/c that's the way I felt about this article as well.

Moving back on topic from the childish bickering here, I am a graduate of Morehouse College as well as have done interns at Tuskegee U and have seen my share of the behavior that the author mentioned. As many of the readers posted, this is more about what he thinks is damaging the perception from a hetero standpoint than anything else. Personally I've seen bruthas there, grilled out, thugged out, pants hangin off their ass. Now if we can tolerate this being thrown in the worlds face then we can tolerate men in weaves and purses. And to those who think that HBCU's and Morehouse in particular no longer serve a purpose, you need to buck up on your research and facts before you speak. Last weeks Newsweek speaks on the subject as well. Get the story right and then make a comment.

The only thing "tragically wrong" is that people who don't have any affect on your life are subjected to your bigotry and intolerance. At a Historically Black College no less! Shame on you.

Oh word Ostend? How typical of an emotional homosexual. But it's ok, I won't call you out on making up sexual fantasies about me and someone else I don't know because I happen to disagree with you. For someone imploring this young college student to be mature in his thinking, your actions should match your rhetoric.

Don't like someone has to say. Call them homophobic. Call them a closet case. Call them insecure. How very, very, gay and typical.

TDSmoove, I would rather us not have to deal with either. But, if I had to choose between a 'man' wearing a grill vs. a purse, I'll take grills everyday of the week. Next we'll be advocating the use of tampons by men---just because.

As a married, heterosexual woman of a certain age, this has to be one of the most sad article I have read on this site. Why is it that the straight men are so afraid of the gay ones?? If you are a real man, you have no worries or concerns about any other man, for crying out loud, the men of Morehouse and more than a few posters here need to grow up and get over the hate and intolerance. I have never heard my husband or sons say some of the foolish stuff from the author and some of the posters here. Saggy pants, rap music peddling drugs and destroying neighborhoods and gold toothed stereotypes have done more damage to the perception of black men than anything a gay college student with or without a weave ever has.

We as a people need to come together and stop finding ways to further oppress ourselves. The comments by this man further alienate us. We are our own worse enemies. A Perfect example, when a brother or sister tries to better themselves by graduating college and speaking proper English, instead of Ebonics he or she is trying to be white. That is the biggest insult to the black race. What that is saying is that all things good and positive that we all should strive to achieve should be left to the white people. If you want those things then you will have to leave your "blackness" behind and enter the white man's world thus becoming white. Who says that we can’t be classy educated sophisticates and still maintain respect and love of our culture and heritage? No one says it but us. We are holding ourselves back by stereotyping our own race. We are looking down upon our own race believing that we are inferior and should be limited to only certain social conditions. If we can’t show love and respect to our own race how can we expect anyone else too?

It is great to read the comments of individuals who see this article for what it is. For those who refuse to have this type of bigotry and rubbish allowed on any major institution of learning. The only fantasy I have Midwest Guy is of you riding out of town with your posse. So, don't flatter yourself. This isn't about you.

If a man or women is over the age of eighteen, then they should be able to dress, walk, socialize and conduct themselves as they choose without derision as long as they aren't breaking any laws. Im straight and I love women. Therefore my personality and social interaction will reflect that fact. However I do not trip over the fact that some men enjoy being with other men; socially and sexually. It's not my bag. Some men are infeminate - either naturally or not. So what.

I am a proud, gay, black man. I don't have a weave or carry a purse - I don't have anything against men or women who do. Years ago when I was deciding on a college to attend, my family urged Morehouse. I wasn't out then, didn't really know I was gay, and I didn't choose Morehouse. I'm glad I didn't. Over the years I have read and heard about the violence gay men at Morehouse have experienced at the hands of their straight black "brothers." I have two children now and when it comes time for them to go to college, Morehouse will not be an option. For right now, I am removing this website from my bookmarks. I can't control the bigotry spewed by ignorant folks, but I can make sure I don't support it.

I am an gay man, born brooklynite...who gets constantly preceived as "straight" from other GAY MEN! I was bone in 81..I was taught what a man should, physically ans social be...I am just starting to accept that what is is to be a man and how you present yourself and socialize with other si CHANGING. Not all gay men switch, pluck their eyes, wear make up, tight clothes, vogue, talk in a higher tone, or accesorize with common female apparel. You THINK the only man around who are gay are the ones who FIT the stereotypes and thats wear you get your "gay lifestyle" from not realizing that the average gay man is YOU, your brother, your father and your freinds..he just rather a man than a women...THEY totally blend into what you think is NORMAL so you dont count them in the NUMBER! I live in a straight world..NOT a gay one...I see couples kiss and hug and enjoy eachother..listen to guys talk about ass and pussy all day long...but I never say anything. I dont get offended..I have NEVER pick up a bottle or bat and chased a couple of guys down and beat them half to death for harassing a group of young ladies with "Yo Ma!!" or "Pssssss!" The only thing you and many other straight men NEED to understand is that what is is to be a man..meaning the guy standing in front of you with his hand out in greeting NO LONGER has to be TESTBOOK "male"... Even me being a gya black man...raise my eyebrow at some one the things I see these young guys wearing and doing these days..but thats where the world is going...trust some might be a few years ahead of their time but...you either change with the times or become remain painfully ignornat...cause your only hurting yourself in the long run!

Why does the writer of this care who is gay? His insecurity over who he is and that of more than a few posters here is scary. He should be at school to try to get a degree and learn something to better himself and his community, and, that school should be teaching tolerance as its obvious that this guy and other there who think like him are not ready for the real world of diversity. And, give me a gay man with a weave, although I've never seen one with one over one without a clue as to speak a sentence, gold teeth and pants down to his ankle as if he is selling himself in jail any day.

The writer here is clearly utilizing a tragic understanding of the differences among sexuality, sex, and gender, a phenomenon unfortunately misunderstand by all of us at times. Sexuality pertains to whom we find attractive and research has shown that there is no 'gay & straight' but rather a continuum. Sexuality has nothing to do with gender. Gender (or Gender Identity)relates to how we as humans identify ourseleves--or rather, "do I [as a genetically-born male with XY chromosome] feel more female or male [on the inside]?" Understand? Being gay is not a "lifestyle" that one chooses just like being 'straight' but is rather a trait one is born with like brown hair/blue eyes/dark skin/being Black. Can you change or choose your race/ethinicity? No. Can you mentally try to change your race/ethnicity by actively choosing not to associate with others of your race/ethnicity? Yes but here's the lesson: No matter how hard you try to exclude yourself from others of your race/ethniicty, you're still that race/ethnicity. Now analogize this to sexuality and gender. Bottom line, my friend: never show your ignorance by making ignorant statements just because you've encountered things that may be unfamiliar to you but rather learn about those things that are unfamiliar and embrace/tolerate them, i.e., race/ethnicity/piercings/sexuality/etc. It'll better prepare you for the real world.

I'm always amazed at how we as black people are so quick to judge, criticize, and debase one antoher. like crabs in a barrel, we pull down the/those "others" when another seeks affirmation/expression/celebration of their individuality. whether its clarance thomas, flavor flav, Ru paul, or Obama. brothers are quick to judge brothers and narrow freedoms of expression into conservatism rather than expand or definitions of masculinity and self-expression. rather than celebrate what's right about one another we pinpoint the "things/issues" we individually have a problem with, can't stand, can't accept/or tolerate. Micheal Richards call a bunch of brothers out of their names- for the most part black people began a dialogue of how we use the "N" word, the appropriateness of the "N" word and doing away with the "N" word! how about this- "AMERICA YOU AIN'T GON BE CALLING NO BROTHERS NIGGER! NO WAY NO HOW NO TIME PERIOD!!!" Isiah Washington calls the white boy a faggot- this wasn't even on tape and the stories vary, GLAAD imediately demanded the brother loses his job! there's no discussion of the appropriate use of the "F" word, and how many gays use the "F" word. Nope, GLAAD stood by the white boy. Wow, i new it wouldn't be long before "pants sagging," "urban" "Grill" wearing brothers would be pulled into into the mix! Wow! there is actually a key element of these scenarios we aren't celebrating folks- at least these brothers, whether they're grill wearing or purse and weave wearing are also at a school of higher education- a BLACK univeristy at that! getting an education. within a society hell bent on painting brothers as homophobic, hypermasculine, illiterate beasts i for one am encourage that these "purse carrying/weave wearing" brothers haven't bought into all of the negative portrayals of black men, black universities, and blackness in general to attend Morehouse in the first place. if an openly queer/fem/gender-queer brother is willing to express himself that freely within an an all male BLACK university, it saids a lot about how connected the brother feels to other brothers- this to me is a beautiful wonderful opportunity for unity. but these are my thought, don't late me interupt the hate. Peace!

Please forgive the typos of my last response. I wrote it rather quickly and emotionally in between classes. I may have referred to Isaiah Washington as Isaiah Thomas in my urgency. My bad.

I am sitting here trying to imagine the isolation some students go through in college. Not being able to "be themselves" is not very liberating for a student. The learning experience "college" should not be hampered by the intolerance of sexual preference.

why should gay people be interested in protecting the comfort level of straight people? gay people live their lives every single day surrounded by everything heterosexual. ads, movies, tv, couples on the street...etc. what about their level of comfort? because they happen to be the minority does their comfort not count? it always amazes me when people want to put limits on other people's freedoms. especially coming from people of color. for so long we were oppressed and downtrodden and treated as subhuman. don't you remember how were were classified as 3/5ths of a person at one point? now while seeing a man with a purse, a weave and looking more ladylike than my sister my be not something i particularly care for, i am not in the position to deny people the freedom to be who they are. i know who i am and how i carry myself. morehouse is an institution for higher learning. college life is supposed to expand your mind and your horizons. big shock, there are people in this world who live unlike you do. and some of them are your neighbors, co-workers and fellow students. unless one of these purse carrying, weave wearing men is directly influencing your life, and i mean other than just existing, i suggest you look the other way when you don't like the view.

When does Black tolerance go too far?

Remember... this is the same school where a man was beaten to death with a baseball bat because he was assumed to be gay.

WHEW! What responses to this article. It seems that what can be taken from this is that gays should stop complaining about how the thug boys look and straights should stop complaining about how feminine men look.

Gays get upset when people talk about how they look. Straights (sagging pants, platinum grills etc) get upset about the same.

Gerren Geynor! You are a homophobic ignoramus and a merely average writer.

[Comment deleted by moderator.]

Gerren, I don't think I could add anymore than the 100's of others who have told you their thoughts already, but as a black, gay male I am hurt and offended not by your article and your expression of your protected opinion, but by your obvious ignorance on the topics that you so boldly decided to put on paper. Granted you have every right to an opinion, no matter how convoluted it may be, as does that MIDWEST guy, but you should also be mature and capable of handling the backlash, if any, of that opinion. To Mid-west, I appreciate your defense of Gerren, but you must realize that you are effectively telling him that it is okay to discriminate and that he shouldn't feel bad about it right? As human-beings we all rationalize, stereotype and discriminate however we must call to task at what point has it gone to far? As a black gay man, I too am often offended by seeing men wear a full face of make-up, purses instead of messenger or tote bags and womens attire. I do not have issues with transgendered peoples, but I do have issue with the latter. I feel strongly that those gay men, who in my and another posters opinion, have poor taste in expression, add to the stereotypes of what it means to be gay. I wouldn't discriminate against them because to do so would discriminate against myself, but I can be offended by poor attire choices, just as I am if I see someone with ill-fitting or overly baggy clothes.

In a nut shell you article was full of distortion, exaggeration, half-truth; ambiguity, equivocation; defamation, libel, slander; perjury; bluff, pose, pretense (or pretence); humbug, jive, nonsense; fallacy, misconception, myth; misinformation, misrepresentation, misstatement; deceit, deceitfulness, dishonesty, duplicity, fraudulence First of all you look gay yourself, quiet as kept. I do not see what your grade point average have anything to do with a male carrying a Messenger Bag. Why are the people from the south so dumb and stupid. To speak ill of other is a dishonest way of praising ourselves.

You are exactly right, Lamar. Law abiding citizens are not resposible for protecting the comfort of anyone else. I, too have my comfort zones, but do not use them to look down upon anyone else. My comfort zones are used merely to govern my own fashion choices which are also suspect. LOL. Personally, the "grill wearing, baggy pants" style looks like hell to me, but I am cosmopolitan enough to know (despite being from the south) that I may not be the person that the people who wear this is trying to look good for. And from a comment above: "Every straight man who throws up at the thought of two men having sex isn't homophobic." Maybe not, but there would definately be some mental illness involved in such an extreme reaction to ones OWN THOUGHTS and we will have to name it before we can treat it. It would be a shame for someone to suffer like this with no hope! Any suggestions?

I, for one, agree with the author. I think you all are completely missing the point. I think the author is more concerned with those individuals bringing embarrasment to Morehouse and changing the face of the college to something against its original intent. I'm sorry, but man carrying a purse and wearing fake nails is not what the founders of MC envisioned when they started the college. It sounds good to say otherwise, but at the end of the day no one wants to see those circus clowns. I think the author is justified in his concerns.

Canutak>, Thanks although I do not understand where I defended Gerren. Could it possibly be because I didn't blast his school, question his intellect, assume his insecurity, curse him out, insult the region he's currently in, and invite him to sex? What I did was attempt to have a conversation where 'tolerance' (the word we love to throw around) and attempt to understand was the goal. For the majority of the posters, tolerance was not their interest.

I voiced my criticism of his point when I stated that Morehouse should not screen students or have feminine men as a concern about the "look" unless they are going to start doing the same for the hypermasculine "look."

From the tone of some of the posters, they are probably older than I and much older than Gerren. Yet, the way in which they choose to communicate is likened to young, street, alley cats with claws ready to scratch out your eyeballs. That, is not the best way to have the conversation they feel as if no one (other than themselves) would like to have.

Gays, like african americans, routinely separate themselves from the rest of America. A good portion due to the historical inconsistency in how each group has been treated. It has led to generational anger, isolation, strategic blunders and stagnancy. Attacking Gerren's undeveloped matriculation and maturation does not solve that problem.

Midwest you have attacked anyone who does not agree with you, its no big deal that you are gay and a "rough neck" in your mind, but, get over the fact that hatred is wrong, be it based on alleged men with weaves or those with those sagging pants and gold grills you adore.

It's amazing to see the number of responses to this article, while other noteworthy articles have little or no response at all. That says something about the lack of social development in the African American community. It's limiting to say what someone can or cannot do. The author states that gay people are "throwing" their lifestyle in the face of hetro's. Let's flip the table for a minute. Are hetro's throwing their lifestyle in the face of gays when a young man is kissing his girlfriend in public - an act that gays surely can't do without some type of ridicule? Of course not. So why is it when overtly gay people act out of the traditional standard that it's seen as "flaunting" or "forcing" their lifestyle. This is utter bullsh*t. It's the same BS that kept Black people down in America. Whites wanted Blacks to stay in powerless roles and if you stepped out of that role you were harmed, sometimes killed. You remove power from someone when you limit their actions, only to maintain your personal comfort. I am an African American male, and I am not one to sport a man-purse, nor am I am fem gent. However, if one wants to carry themselves as such, let them. I can only assume the author is gay based on some of his word choice and that beautiful photo. So it's unfortunate to see a gay male attempt to limit another gay man. First we had Black on Black crime, now gay on gay oppression. What next?

H Smart you are so right, this non-issue with adults and people secure with their sexuality is getting more posts that every other thread on this site, I guess it shows black folks still have that old slave mentality when it comes to sexuality and what makes a real man, and, the homophobic ones wouldn't know a real man if he walked in front of them as the only real man they see is one who swaggers around like a negative stereotype put out by the rap and jail system.

Great article Gerren, but as my coworker and I sit here and discuss our memories of Morehouse we can't help but to remember all the stories that date back from the 70's and 80's when Morehouse was known for being a tolerable school for gay men. I was born in Atlanta and I decided to attend Tuskegee University instead of Morehouse for that reason. I'm sure homosexuality existed in Tuskegee, fortunately I wasn't forced to see it, live with it, or witness it on a daily as I've seen many times traveling Ashby or Lee St. Atlanta has a very diverse community and Morehouse has made many contributions to this great city by producing some remarkeble men who add to our prestige and economy. The problem I find is that the homosexual behavior has become too tolerant and too open. I compare the behavior to PDA or openly naughty behavior. Why do I need to see a man act as a woman? I understand that a man may have an attraction to men, but does that make him act as a woman? This doesn't seem real to me. It's like an insecurity. If a man is insecure he buys a big car, wears the big gold chain, or buys expensive items to compensate. Gay men act flamboyantly and it's not real. I know enough gay people who tell me this behavior sickens them as well. I feel they should have more respect for themselves as well as the ever enduring gay community. Judge me if you may, but I view homosexuality as a disease. Why in the world would a man want to lay with another man with all the beautiful and intelligent ladies running around the SOUTH? Now that's my opinion. Deal with it!

Homosexuality 2050!!! What happens if homosexuality becomes too normal. In this copy cat world we live in all would become gay. The reproductive rate will vanish, and human-beings would become extinct. With all the testosteron driven males out of the picture, it sure would be interesting to see how survival would end up a female trait. Men would become the home-makers while the women hunt for the community, not the family. This will eventually become our society. Sports would end, since there's no need for competition. Hair shows would replace the Superbowl. Garden hoses will replace fishing poles. Guns will be replaced by 3inch heels. I think I may move to Iran, at least there's no confusion.

Is the guy who wrote this - Gerren GAYnor — gay?

The comments to this article are starting to become redudant. Let's move on. This is becoming very tiredd and very last year.

Wow! This is one of the most homophobic articles I have read in a long time. The bottom line is that Mr. Gaynor, like many of those who comment, cannot accept that the world has changed and that more and more gay black men are coming out and living their lives openly and honestly and this is not going to change. The train has left the station. I am sick and tired of straight black folk complaining about DL brothers and then complaining about openly gay brothers. What exactly is it you want? Just as many whites say that they have no problems with blacks just as long as they don't act "too black or too ghetto." Mr. Gaynor's article reeks of the same distorted logic. Straight black men, need to get over their issues with their gay brothers, and start concentrating on the real problems in our community, one being the fact that 70% of black children are born out of wedlock. That is not a gay issue but a straight one. Now deal with that!

Perhaps Morehouse should adopt a dress code for all classes as well as rules on the use of make-up, standard hairstyles/length with exceptions for religious reasons and jewelry. This is not a public institution, they can set whatever rules they want too as far as dress and appearances. Frankly, a man in a halter and purse sa-shaying anywhere is disturbing, whether its on the Morehouse campus or in Midtown Atlanta...it such an over-exaggaration, the person is over-compensating and it just looks stupid.

SOLUTION,SOLUTION,SOLUTION Grenner Gaynor,interesting name but I'll leave that alone. Mr.Gaynor if you were to organize some of your brothern at Morehouse to each pick a school in Atlanta and tutor 100 Black males from each High School advance their Math,English & Reading scores so that they may attend Morehouse or any Black Historical College of their choosing that would have a positive impact on the student body HBCU wide. As for effiminate men a lack of fathers in the home has alot to do with the youth today expressing themselves in an over-exaggerated way...ie pants sagging,no shirts,ear-rings in both ears,long hair and just expressing themselves as thay chose without a man in the house to suppress that individuality. PEACE OUT.

Anytime we in the Black Community have an issue it's an opportunity to Educate. I believe several Black Colleges were started by Black Gay Men, who happen to be the best Barbers in the Country. I believe several years ago someone wrote a book detailing the lives of these unsng heros.PEACE OUT. What I'm saying Mr.Gaynor is that your story should have stated how many of our Universities were started by our Black Gay Brothern.

@ proudngay: Have you taken the time to consider WHY 70% of Black children are born out of wedlock? Maybe the large numbers of gay Black men has something to do with it. You think? Could it be that because so many Black men are consumed with same sex relations, they cannot see the damage they are doing to the Black community. That's right, I said it! This is not a straight or gay issue, but a Black family issue! It is really quite disturbing.

The out of wedlock issue is multifaceted. No doubt an element of it involves same-gender loving black men self- or community (including the woman or women in question) pressured into situations that they shouldn't and need not be in. But this likely might cover 10% (at most) of these births.

Another issue might be the woman's decision to carry the child to term and keep the child where other women choose abortion or adoption.

Still another issue is the economic scheme, I mean system that we all are in. Choices that we all make (and often influenced by family and community) regarding our own education and employment can exacerbate things and the children pay.

BTW, there's another reason for the OOW birth, and that is anatomy and under-used alternatives that Mother Nature has provided. I'll stop here.

Mr. Gaynor is commended for speaking out however informed or ill-informed. It's long overdo for this issue to come out of the closet in the HBC/Us.

Don't let someone's purse (or their fear of your purse) take your eyes off the prize.

@Sandra K. What you just said is a form of homophobic scapegoating. The reason why 70% of black children are born out-of-wedlock is because black women CHOOSE to have babies by men who mostly don't want them for anything except sex. They could CHOOSE to keep their legs closed. The majority of the black baby daddies either are NOT marriage material or, if they are marriage material, they don't want to marry black women. This is a problem between straight black men and straight black women. We black gay men don't have ANYTHING to do with the fact that, for the most part, straight black women and straight black men just can't get along outside the bedroom.

The historical purpose for Morehouse was to produce African American males that would go on to do great things in society and to secure an education that would ensure them viable to be family men and to further secure their legacy within a heterosexual family unit. One must ask themselves does Morehouse growing so tolerant of homosexuality on their campus further benefit their legacy? I am not homophobic but a realist. Educated gay men do contribute to the society but they aren't certainly enhancing the famliy structure. Furthermore, the comments about the 7o% Black single mother statistic tells of real failure of within the Black community and much of it stemming from males who have been emasculated over time and have taken options to just opt out of their responsibility. It is unfair to say that Black women are just having sex for the sake of it but rather believing at the time there is or would be a commitment with Black men who society has taught them not to do.

Furthermore to the Black women haters out there. Learn some respect for the women who raise your children when you don't.

@ elg: So, Black women are just whores, right? Are you telling me that gay Black men don't have sex outside of marriage? But then they don't have to worry about becoming pregnant or whether or not their men are "marriage material", do they? BTW: Can you tell me one thing: Why are some Black gay men always saying that Black women should "keep their legs shut"? I wonder, do they practice what they preach. Oh, just one last question-do they include their mothers, sisters, aunts, and other female relative when they bash Black women? Some of you need to take a long look at the man in the mirror!

Sandra, I don't know where you get your statistics from but the "large number of gay black men" is not based on any clear statistical data. All of the statistics that I have read and discussed in Bible classes as well as with the students I teach clearly state that at the very most gays and lesbians comprise 10% of the population and some statistics say that 5% is more realistic. This is from Alfred Kinsey's report which though done years ago is still the most reliable on the subject of sex. Don't make up stats to support your distorted homophobic views. It is amazing that you would blame gay black men for the problems in our community and not say a thing about straight black men. Stuff it sista!

@proudngay: You're not really spouting numbers from a study done over 60 years ago are you? And go back and read my words carefully. I asked if the large numbers of gay Black men might have "something" to do with the BOW situation in the Black community. Meaning, many Black women have no marriage prospects because far too many Black men are either incarcerated, gay, etc. You ask about my stats, when I never even referred to any numbers, other than the 70% BOW rate that you introduced into the discussion. What was that about, anyway? What does the BOW rate have to do with this discussion about gay tolerance?

@Sandra K: You used the word "whore", not me. The fact that 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock speaks for itself. My point was that straight black women should make better decisions about who they have sex with and who they have babies by. If you want to place all the blame for this problem on men (as so many straight black women do), why don't you blame STRAIGHT black men? My sexual orientation, which is innate (I have NEVER had sex with a woman in my entire life), has nothing to do with black women's poor marriage prospects. Straight black women and straight black men should grow up and fix THEIR problems like responsible adults and leave black gay men out of it. I'm sick to death of being blamed by straight black women for something that has NOTHING to do with me. I. AM. NOT. HAVING. IT.

YSenegal,

You say that gay men do not benefit the family structure. What kind of family structure are you talking about?

Where do gay men come from? Who do parents go to when they need money and the straight brother is off doing no good or just not interested? Who do the straight nieces and nephews depend on to help mommy when "daddy" has abandoned them? If it isn't the lesbian aunt it can often be the GAY uncle. I live what I write about.

The reality is that lesbians and gay men are very much an important part of the black and larger human family structure.

M. You are absolutely correct and had I have seen much of this happen. However, providing a few dollars here and there is what many family members do for each other anyway. When I speak of family structure, I truly mean the one that supports procreation of offspring; ideally supporting them and providing them with a legacy. I believe this was the true intent of the university to instill pride and hope in Black men so that they could do just this. The fraternities supplemented the academic experience by sharing those very values of Brotherhood, family and support.

Ysenegal,

Nothing (not even purse-holding classmates) is stopping the heterosexual Morehouse Man from being what you or he thinks he should be.

The mythic Morehouse man is stopped only if HE chooses to be weak and chooses to be the lesser person by being hung-up on some other person's difference.

Ya'll really need to grow up and deal with life, especially the guy who wrote this, not everyone is straight, and, most of us could care less what consenting, grown folks do. I wonder if the Morehouse "man" is out helping kids read,ya know those without a father in the home since 70% don't have one, the elderly get to appointmets, or sitting around gossiping about who is gay?

Luke J.: I agree. You know this topic has been beaten to death when people try to blame out of wedlock births on gay men! Now that's some crazy shit! I seriously doubt that those guys with purses and hairweaves are going around making babies. I think you might want to blame the straight boys for that one.

I must say this has been a wonderful and fascinating discussion thus far. Well done, everyone! Mr. Gaynor, I've found your restraint and composure during this heated discourse admirable. As an openly gay black male, I didn't find you essay homophobic in the least- actually you state very clearly, "I'm not saying that having gay students at this institution damages the image of Morehouse." I believe your sincerity on that subject. As I've stated before, the issue is really about heteronormativity and "gender" norms. It is on the level of "appropriate" gender expression where I disagree with you entirely. I have opinions regarding what I am/am not comfortable with regarding gender expression. However, I would never expect nor want others to conform to my comfort levels. Once again, thank you for initiating a passionate discussion!

it wasn't that long ago that certain citizens were criticized for being "too black." You are an ignorant fool, sir.

Gerren, you got it all wrong. First thing: Gay exists. Gay is out there. It's not going away. This is no new phenomenon. It's time to respond intelligently. Second thing: Are you saying that it's OK to be gay at Morehouse, you just must never admit it and can only appear and act straight, because anything that deviates from straight causes discomfort, and to cause discomfort among the straight majority of Morehouse is unfair? 'Cause that's what I'm hearin'. Third thing: If the presence of gay students continues to be denied and openly gay students continue to be met with hostility, Morehouse's problems ain't disappearin' anytime soon. Or ever. If there is no attempt to understand gay students of Morehouse, the clash between the gay and straight student population will worsen. If it's perceived to be acceptable behavior to berate and attack the minority gay population (out of fear, misunderstanding, or simply recreation), I fear there will be an incident of violence. Violence against gay people is unacceptable. Violence against gay people happens often. And, let's say, worst case scenario, a violent attack results in the death of a gay student at Morehouse, boy, your esteemed university is gonna have a lot of fun dealing with that. Lastly: I hope one day you will figure it out, bro. 'Cause spittin' out this kind of hostility in the guise of an editorial is irresponsible and ain't doin' anything to address the problem except escalate it.

This article sounds like a call for sexual orientation (or gender presentation) discrimination at Morehouse. If Morehouse ever implements such a policy or engages in it defacto then legally and morally the place should be closed. Besides, aren't many universities especially HBCUs like Morehouse struggling financially in the current economic state but the author finds room to encourage qualified and tuition paying students he considers undesirables to attend other universities. They just might take your advice and then where would Morehouse be? Geez, can gay brothers get a break!

As I read this original article that prompted a statement of rebuttal that I've read earlier, I am sincerely disturbed by the level of ignorance that this person displays. Not only is he speaking of "when does gay tolerance go too far", but to be completely honest, the way that this young male presents himself (in the photo provided), leaves me to wonder if this individual is gay. Let's just be honest here, there's something about him that screams "I DON'T LIKE PU**Y". His article gives "purpose" to discuss "a taboo subject that "merits great conversation". I find that Morehouse must accept riffraff as their New League of "Extraordinaire Gentleman", because the last time I checked....you are enrolled in school to worry about yourself! If you have the purpose or time to concern yourself with the affairs of others, especially those who don't PRIMARILY IMPACT YOU, then your sense of "higher education" is profoundly warped! There is NOT one sentence or word pairing located within this piece of literature that presents great dialogue and or thinking process! He brings into question the hypothetical occurrence of a male student undergoing a "sex-change surgery (thus proving his lack of intelligence by not thoroughly researching the proper terminology). The proper term for this procedure is called a vaginoplasty, as it relates to the surgery of the female genitals, or in this case...sexual reassignment. Now, think long and hard before you try to dispute the relevance of this, as it DIRECTLY relates to your purpose for writing this nonsense! By proposing and forecasting this event, it shows that your head is not where it needs to be...IN THE BOOKS! If in the likelihood that this was to occur, it will be a matter for Administration and Personnel of Morehouse College to decided the fate of the human being...not yours; so why be concerned? There is a term that describes your sentiments in regards to this issue: "pressed" "I'm all for being who you are. If you like women, go on and date women. If you like men, be my guest and date men. But if you are born a man, you should be just that--a man." Now, let's debate this issue on what makes "a man" a man. Simply because you have a penis, and are born with the chromosome pairs of X and Y, does not make you a man. It does however make you a male, now...Morehouse Student, I ask you to define the differences between being born a male (sex; XY chromosomes that dictate physical characteristics pertaining to reproduction) ,a man (in regards to what personal qualities make up the individual), and how gender roles are incorporated for each. I find it to be completely shameful how this male (notice the terms after I've defined my words) is allowed to publish such crap, especially when it is circulated around the halls of a College that have made our history as African-Americans so great! Mr. Gaynor, we as African Americans have a certain image to uphold, and a male who thinks like a primitive fool (in every essence of quality and proper attitude) "just isn't it".

"Would it be wrong for Morehouse to implement a new acceptance procedure in which they are required to interview students, in an attempt to decrease gay population?" Are you serious? Hey, maybe after you weed out all the gays we can make them wear rainbows on their jackets so we can know who to spit on. Or, better yet, we can tuck them away in concentration camps so we don't have to see them..... Who wrote this, Hitler? I am disgusted that something this ignorant was actually published. I just mass forwarded this article to my contact list with the soul intention of damaging this website's reputation for allowing the publication of such garbage.

Gay male students have been tolerated at Morehouse for a long time now. I support tolerance and the rights of the homosexuals to matriculate at HBCU's but I urge college administrators to enforce strict dress codes at America's HBCU's. A black man will not have a chance to succeed in any career dressing like a woman.

Seems to me that you pay a lot of attention to the way the gay males at Morehouse dress. Is there something you'd like to share w/the class, Gerren?

"I just mass forwarded this article to my contact list with the soul intention of damaging this website's reputation for allowing the publication of such garbage." That's a laugh. 1. Nobody cares, and you're contributing nothing with that idle threat 2. My goodness, aren't you an "armchair critic"!

I am hear to steer up the pot a little I am a heterosexual male and I am hear to speak the truth I know it may offend someone, but that is what happens when someone speaks the truth. First and foremost we are human and the animal world respects each other more than we do. When it comes to homosexuality it stops what God intended. Now if you dont believe in God then you don't have nothing to worry about but if you do believe in God you know that when two men gets together or gets married where is there room for natural life (kids and grand kids) when you choose to be with a man you stop Gods process for pro-creation. Not just that you have nothing that will carry your legacy. When you choose to be gay you are telling God I don't want to live in your will I would like to be selfish, and I want to stop your creation from happening. Now to throw in what really doesn't make any sense is in order for you to have sex you have to penetrate a hole that was intended for human waste to come out of what is natural about that. I can say that I don't see nothing wrong with a man or a woman to have tendencies of the opposite sex but what it is wrong is when you choose to go with your selfish lustful feelings and call it love. Before I yield I would like to know if it is ok for homosexuality, than it should be ok for mothers to wanna have sex with there kids it should be ok for fathers to wanna come out and say they wanna be with there sons. I said all of that to say this you guys wanna use human rights in your favor. What happen to us black folks in the past has nothing to do with homosexuality. If you do the research on Homosexuality you will find out that it always existed but God frowned on it and it was started from caucasian of old in a lawless society that had nothing to do with God. Now you can debate all you want about if gays and lesbians should be excepted in society witch they already do, but tell me this are they excepted in Gods eyes. I am no saint but I do want to be right with The true creator

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Wow this entire article is terrible but a few points are so awful I simply must address them. "It is true that some men of Morehouse have failed to honor and respect their gay brothers. Yet, the feelings and presence of heterosexual students should not be ignored. Is it fair for a straight male to come to an institution where he is forced to live in an environment that makes him feel uncomfortable? Because I'm quite sure that if he wanted to be surrounded by females, he would have gone to Clark-Atlanta University." That is a terrible argument, YES people should be forced to do what they find uncomfortable in some situations. Many whites sure as hell were not comfortable with Brown v. Board of Education, but yes of course they were rightfully forced to be uncomfortable. Prejudice and discrimination is WRONG, discomfort can never be used as a justification. "I notice the prevailing discomfort between our heterosexual students and their homosexual counterparts. You know how it goes: a cluster of openly gay students walk by, and a group of heterosexual students suddenly stop what they're doing to either avoid making any contact whatsoever, or look on with a sense of disgust. Or when class discussions happen to run on the topic of homosexuality, and that one openly homosexual student steps up to the plate to defend himself and his lifestyle." If this is an accurate representation of how things are at Morehouse (I can only assume it is not) then Morehouse sounds like an awful place to go to school (which I do not believe it is). This situation sounds like something from the 1970s or something, heterosexuals stopping to gape in fear and disgust at a group of gays? Grow up. Ive never seen that happen and that sounds like the behavior of 5 year olds. I've never seen a group of heterosexuals act that way and if I did I would call them out on it. "At this rate, Morehouse College may find itself in a difficult situation. What happens if and when one of our gay Morehouse brothers decides to go the next step and undergo a sex-change operation, and is then physically considered to be a woman? Does Morehouse have the right to ask that student to leave?" This right here takes the cake, this is literal proof that you have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what you are talking about. Do a bit of research and you will find that there is NO link between being a gay man and a trans woman. Those are two ENTIRELY different things, completely separate phenomena. This is not a subject of debate, it's a medical fact. The fact that you wrote this paragraph is proof that you did zero research on homosexuality or transgendered people. Use some common sense for once, of course a trans woman wouldn't be allowed to go to an all male college, they're a woman.

It's amazing but not surprising to see such discriminatory remarks come from a a writer in the newspaper of a college that itself was founded to combat discrimination and give all students regardless of color a chance for higher education. Yet you would deny that same right and honor to a gay student is truly Hippocracy at it's highest and purest level. All students deserve an education regardless of race (unless your gay or transgender) is what your saying.

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