Thursday, February 9, 2012 8:50pm EST Make this your Home Page | RSS rss

Blacks and gays debate gay marriage

Staff Reporter | Posted November 14, 2008 11:15 AM

Black lesbian activist Jasmyne Cannick appeared on The O'Reilly Factor Thursday night to discuss the black community's view of same-sex marriage.

Cannick, a Daily Voice contributor, debated Wayne Besen, the executive director of a gay rights group called Truth Wins Out. "He's just another classic example of people who just don't get it," Cannick said of Besen.

Cannick has criticized the gay movement in California for failing to reach out to the black community in its efforts to stop California's Proposition 8. The measure, passed by the voters on November 4, outlaws same-sex marriage in the state, even though the practice had been legal for months after a state Supreme Court ruling earlier in the year. Exit polls indicate that black voters voted in favor of the proposition.

"There was very little outreach done to African Americans and African American support should not be taken for granted," Cannick said. She said she supports same-sex marriage but added, "I can see why this happened."

Host Bill O'Reilly tried to get Cannick and Besen to explain if gay civil rights were the same as civil rights for blacks and if the U.S. Constitution guarantees a right to same-sex marriage. Asked specifically if same-sex marriage ban and bans on interracial marriage raised the same issue, Cannick said, "that argument is always going to be dead on arrival" for black people. "The gay civil rights movement always wants to equate it to the civil rights movement but they really don't understand that movement or the history behind it."

Cannick did admit that she sees "similarities" in the issues but "the gay rights movement needs to understand that you cannot ask black people to separate religion and the church, especially the black church, from the civil rights movement."

Besen disagreed with Cannick and questioned who she represented. He said he had marched with Whoopi Goldberg in New York Wednesday night and said Cannick did not speak for African Americans. It's not about black or white, it's about fair or unfair, Besen said. And for those African Americans who deny the similarity between the movements, Besen said "they're wrong."

Besen also cited the words of Martin Luther King to show the people should be judged by "the content of their character."

Cannick acknowledged her support for gay civil rights but focused on the failed strategy adopted by the opponents of Prop. 8 and their failure to understand the breadth of issues that affect African Americans. "If I could get married tomorrow, I still have to deal with the issue of being black," she said.

"The constitution doesn't say anything related to gender around marriage," Cannick told O'Reilly. "But I do not like the strategy -- the poor campaign strategy -- and then turn around and try to demonize black people," she said.

Citing a conversation with Larry Elder, host O'Reilly said that conservative African Americans believe gay civil rights and black civil rights are "not the same thing." O'Reilly said, "You are born with a skin color. Homosexuality is an action." Besen disagreed and, in a rare moment of unity, Cannick seemed to share his opposition to O'Reilly's remark.

But O'Reilly had the last word, insisting: "You lost in California. That was the will of the people" and he urged gay rights supporters to stop targeting churches and opponents.

Articles written by a Staff Reporter are unsigned reports from a member of the staff.

E-mail

Comments 37

science_based
2008-11-14 12:25:57

A democratic socicety must balance competing interests of diverse groups, in this case, those advocating for gay marriage, and those who believe marriage should be between a man and a woman. Just like the abortion debate, these two sides will never agree. Unfortunately, the way the same-sex marriage law that was temporarily put in place was written, the rights of freedom of speech and of religion were subjugated to the rights of same-sex couples. This means that the door would have been open to make the act of expressing ones opinion that same-sex marriage is wrong a hate crime - when in reality, that speech is a legitimate expression that holds no ill-will to those who engage in homosexual behavior and is consistent with thousands of years of belief by religions across the world. Freedom of religion is compromised when an individual must perform an act contrary to thier belief, or when the government begins to designate which belief systems are allowed and which are not by removing the religious tax exemption (the US Supreme Court has equated this with eliminating with free speech for a group of people). I personally believe there is a middle ground that can be crafted in the law that will fully respect the desires of same-sex couples, while protecting the freedom of speech and freedom of religion that America was founded on, and for which my pilgrim ancestors fled England. This can only be achieved if extremists in the GLBT community stop harassing those who hold other points of view, and begin working on collaborative solutions. The events of the past few days communicate to the public which side of the debate is truly bigoted and hateful. Targeting people of faith for expressing a different opinion is too appalling for dialog and progress to take place.

Church Bear
2008-11-14 13:06:09

Part of the Jonestown appeal was that we had a religious/public figure who spoke about racial unity and was able to bring people together despite color which was music to many peoples ears...

What white gays black gays...gays of any race need to always be mindful of is that not everybody who is heterosexual (regardless of race) and claims to be accepting of gay marriage or gay people is your friend or ally.

Sure, everyone needs friends and associates of diverse backgrounds but not simply because they say the things we most want to hear... Many of these so called "friends of gay people" see the gay community as a tool to derive publicity/social credits & power and they don't care what kind of garbage they leave behind for us to clean up.

Anytime somebody has to climb up and linger on a fuccin soap box to announce to the world that they accept gay people and approve of gay marriage is clearly attempting to tap into some cattle mentality.

I don't care how fond you are of gay marriage, if you are a gay person of any color you know damn well sumptin aint right with people like SF Mayor Gavin Newsome with his over exuberant support of gay marriage. Im gay as all hell and whenever I see him on televison acting as though he were gay America's best heterosexual friend...something in my intuition tells me this man is full of shit and is more than willing to spur racial and any other tension within the gay community so as long as it keeps he looking good.

DON'T DRINK THE KOOL AID FOLKS!

Rowan
2008-11-14 14:31:02

"can only be achieved if extremists in the GLBT community stop harassing those who hold other points of view, and begin working on collaborative solutions." What like the Mormons and there 10 year campaign? Thier forcing of Mormon members to vote for Prop 8 or they would be disrespectful to the 'cause'? You're forefather's were also fleeing a religous persecution from ANOTHER religion. YOUR forefathers BROKE out of the mainstream christian religion...pretty rebelious huh? Kind of EXTREMIST no? But hey, I don't judge, I just make sure I read all the news right wing, left wing, old history, current news etc to get the WHOLE picture because we are a WHOLE world. Churchbear-that's the kind of openmindedness I like to see! ?

Ramses
2008-11-14 14:59:57

The reversed Bradley affect, I believe more African Americans voted for the prop. then identified. This is another right wing conspiracy to separate the African American electorate from the broader political coalition. If not the African American community better wake up and realize that God is always on the side of the oppressed, especially those of us or are gay and Black. White gays need to recognize there on racism and the fact that in their literature and publications, and leadership we are not or underrepresented. The mainstream media is more representative of Black men and women then Glad and many of those other white organizations which were built on the backs of black, Hispanic and white gays and lesbians.

Anonymity
2008-11-14 15:11:08

That Cannick woman is plain crazy. Has anyone ever had of outreach programmes by blacks to whites aimed at combating racism. Silliest excuse I ever heard...

Ronald
2008-11-14 15:59:48

I thought the debate was a good one. It is interesting how Mr. Besen would not address the issue of their failed strategy. When he understands the Black, Hispanic and Asian communities better he will be able to garner their support. Ms. Cannick spoke truthfully for as soon as someone that walks around with skin privilege and then wants to equate marriage equality to the civil rights movement to Black americans there message will be rejected. While marriage equality is a civil right it is nothing like the civil rights movement. I am not a fan of Fox News but I think they did a pretty good job here. Mr. Besen needs to retool his outreach and language and he will see more people of color join in the fight for marriage equality.

Valendra
2008-11-14 16:22:59

I just want to know how the hell they chose Jasmyne Cannick to speak on behalf of the lgbt community?

She look like hell,dem glasses she got on don't make her appear any less ignant, all she did was go into panick mode and wound up embarrassing the whole gatdamn black lgbt community on live tv.

Plus she look like she may have a touch of lupus.

1914inches
2008-11-14 18:06:41

For real Bill, homosexualilty is a "act". So if homeseualilty is an act i guess you can go and freely act and have sex with a dude?

JacksonStateAlum
2008-11-14 18:25:33

Valendra, I didn't hear Jasmyne Cannick say that she was speaking for the entire LBGT community? Furthermore, what is (Ignant)???? Did you mean Ignorant??? We are all adults, let�s not stoop to stupidity. Yes, you have freedom of speech. However, you are getting to personal. FYI, Jasymne Cannick has her own personal blog web page. Maybe you should get some clarification from here personally.

Valendra
2008-11-14 21:10:53

JasmyneStateAlum if you don't like what I wrote then that's too bad for YOU.

If you can't figure out what IGNANT might mean despite claiming to have a college degree then your college did little to improve your problem solving skills and just handed you a degree.

You should go getchu a refund.

Kola Boof
2008-11-14 23:35:46

Not starting anything, Valendra.

But I thought Jasmyne looked cute on there...

...and my Mother (who is black, straight and AGAINST gay marriage) absolutely loved her.

Though I've never met Jasmyne personally, I tried to pretend like I know her. LOL! I was like "Mama, I know hur!"

For those who don't know (before they start the ATTACKS)...my adoptive parents are SOUTHERN Black Americans, so I often do a "twang" when talking with them. 'Cause of me, they speak a little Arabic (actually more than a little bit).

But anyway, my MOM loved Jasmyne and she watched it on television and called me up about it.

My opinion is that I agree with everything Jasmyne's complaining about, but I think there's a MUCH bigger picture that's being swept under the carpet in "typical" black folk suffer and DENIAL style. I live in Southern Cali just like Jasmyne and the "anti-gay rhetoric" spoken by blacks out here leading up to the election was SHOCKING. I honestly don't believe that a campaign would have done much to change the outcome (maybe blacks would have voted YES only 60% instead of 70). But I doubt any OUTREACH would have been enough.

Diego
2008-11-14 23:36:35

The Church of Latter-Day HATE donated more than $3 million to eliminating gay people's rights in California. The Church of Latter-Day HATE produced most of the prop 8 ads, had the prop 8 signs made in China, shipped church members to California to protest, ordered it's members to vote to eliminate gay people's rights, ordered it's members to donate money and ordered it's members to volunteer in various ways. The Church of Latter-Day HATE has taken a leading role in eliminating gay people's fundamental rights for over a decade. Whatever blowback they get IS justified. The Church of Latter-Day HATE is anti-American. America is about the progression of individual freedoms; marriage equality is on that path of progress. Marriage equality for ALL. I believe in marriage for same-sex couples and different-sex couples. That is American.

JacksonStateAlum
2008-11-15 01:08:20

Valendra, Girl...I attended an institution of Higher learning NOT the school of Hard Knocks.... Ignant is not even in Webster�s Dictionary. Seems like someone is angry they don't have a degree. It only takes hard work and determination to get out. Try it ! Someone petty.....;-)...I'm amused

Valendra
2008-11-15 02:16:47

JasmyneStateAlum, Kola, yalls comments have been read but they don't change my opinion about Jasmyne's performance on that show.

Jasmyne was an embarrassing ignant mess. She looked like hell and just wanted to be on tv.

JasmyneState I don't get your obsession with college in this discussion are you saying you are better than people who don't have a college degree?

ChurchBear
2008-11-15 02:27:53

I wrote earlier and just wanted to reiterate that:

Part of the Jonestown appeal was that we had a religious/public figure who spoke about racial unity and was able to bring people together despite color which was music to many peoples ears... What white gays black gays...gays of any race need to always be mindful of is that not everybody who is heterosexual (regardless of race) and claims to be accepting of gay marriage or gay people is your friend or ally. Sure, everyone needs friends and associates of diverse backgrounds but not simply because they say the things we most want to hear... Many of these so called "friends of gay people" see the gay community as a tool to derive publicity/social credits & power and they don't care what kind of garbage they leave behind for us to clean up. Anytime somebody has to climb up and linger on a fuccin soap box to announce to the world that they accept gay people and approve of gay marriage is clearly attempting to tap into some cattle mentality. I don't care how fond you are of gay marriage, if you are a gay person of any color you know damn well sumptin aint right with people like SF Mayor Gavin Newsome with his over exuberant support of gay marriage. Im gay as all hell and whenever I see him on televison acting as though he were gay America's best heterosexual friend...something in my intuition tells me this man is full of shit and is more than willing to spur racial and any other tension within the gay community so as long as it keeps he looking good. DON'T DRINK THE KOOL AID FOLKS!

Lorraine Jackson
2008-11-15 04:42:32

Church Bear that is so very true

I was just thinking about how easily all minorities can be factored and how easy it is to make us all fight against each other for the same slice of pie.

And yes this happens within white communities too but Blacks are usually easier to scapegoat because of our skin color.

Many White gay protesters wouldn't know if I were a black lgbt or a black heterosexual..According to this approach..JUST BE BLACK!

Cannick was right on the money that many white gay people simply do not understand the history of black American struggle with racism enough to jump into our cultural experiences, I did feel somewhat ashamed to call her my sister when she looked so unkempt, easily rattled and couldn't close the deal.

and yes Cannick did appear to just be someone "happy to be on tv..come what may" but in the end I think she did what she could do given the pay she recieved.

Josh
2008-11-15 10:12:57

Cannick makes as many valid points as she does ridiculous ones, both here and in here L.A. times op-ed. One of the valid ones is that white gay people really do not have a good understanding of the struggles of black Americans, both during the civil rights movement, before the civil rights movement, and currently. But that's not specific to the gay community, it's specific to white people, and some of those white people happen to be gay. The problem is that those gay white people are the ones wanting black support for gay rights. My beef though, is that she poses it as if it's this you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours issue. It's like "Well if we vote for gay marriage, what are you gays going to do for us?!" Uh, shouldn't you just be voting for what's right? Not voting for something because you think you're going to get something out of it? All oppressed groups are largely ignorant to the oppression of other oppressed groups. It's not specific to white gays. And let's say you do have a problem with white gays for whatever reason, what about your fellow black, gays and lesbians? Do you not care that they can't get married either? I'm really just not sure why she's acting like people are walking into the voting booth with these race issues in mind, when really most black voters are simply voting based on their religion. I'm getting major self-hatred vibes from her, which funny enough seems to be the result of the homophobia in the black community. It's sometimes hard to be both a black and gay activist, when those are two communities that are generally at odds with each other, even before Prop. 8 It's odd that she claims to care about social justice, yet at the same time seems to be making the case that gay people need to do something for black people in order for them to do something for gay people. Imagine if segregation were up for a vote, and some white person said, "Well why should black equality matter to me?" How about because it's fair and just? She also makes it seem like just because black people are still suffering that no other group's inequalities matter. "Well, black people are still getting pulled over, so why are you whining about marriage?" Just because there are plenty of things in this world to be upset about, doesn't mean you can't be fighting for gay marriage, while at the same time acknowledging the injustices toward blacks and other groups. Also, she says the black civil rights movement was born out of the church, and thus, blacks are at odds with the gay community because of what the Bible says about homosexuality. I wonder if she's aware of the fact that the BIBLE was also used to justify slavery, segregation, and to argue against interracial marriage.

Vince
2008-11-15 11:30:27

Is there racism among too many white gays? Yes. Is there homophobia among too many blacks? Yes. And if we continue to pose similar questions around isms, the answers would also be yes. But why would Besen and Cannick debate these issues on the O'Rielly Factor? Please... He will turn all these comments against gays, blacks, gay blacks, etc., etc. Unfortunately, it appears that Besen and Cannick are more concerned about getting their faces out there and boosting their blog readership than making a difference for the groups and issues they claim to care about.

JacksonStateAlum
2008-11-15 11:54:17

Valendra, First for foremost, this is my very last response to you. The name is Jackson State Alum NOT JasmyneStateAlum. Secondly, of course I don't think people with college degree are better than people without. However, I do believe that the opportunities for advancement with college degrees in this world are far way much better than people without credentials. Additionally, people who speak standard ENGLISH, spelling correctly, and pronounce and annunciate their words correctly earn more respect from peers and tend to perceived as Well education even if they�re not. Finally, getting back to the topic. You were not talk about Jasyme's dialogue, her points, nor the position at hand. You were beginning to get tacky and started talking about her appearance. Very Petty, Have you heard of the word decorum?????? Have a nice life!!! ;-) P.S. ( Education is a progressive discovery of our ignorance)

MidwestGuy
2008-11-15 12:16:59

Josh, Glad to read your number of valid points Jasmyne made versus those ridiculous ones. At first it was hard figuring out the valid ones but I did find it in that one sentence.

When any group is seeking support from another, outreach is one of the key ingredients. I did not sense that Jasmyne was speaking about outreach to the black "gay" community, but the larger black community. I would guess that 90%+ black gays were against it. In 2004, Bush reached outside of the "white" evangelical community and sought the vote of the "black" evangelicals. Obama did not only go for the support of white liberals, he went after them all. With each group, there were offerings tailored specifically to that group. So I agree with that idea if it's what Jasmyne meant.

The the gay community is asking for support. You will have a hard time convincing most christians that they need to support gay rights because just it's right. We're not that perfect. Her point about the black community's ire against gays being rooted in church is true. Yes it was used to justify slavery. However, I did not think she was defending the idea but pointing to it's origin.

I wondered why she kept repeating that she was a lesbian and after reading your post I can see why. In it, you seem to miss that she is a lesbian and it would be crazy for her to vote against her own interests--something she never implied she would do or supported. She made a case for why the black, non-gay community should have been included in outreach efforts.

White people are apprehensive about supporting a black person who complains about slavery and racism. They overwhelmingly reject it. Conversely, it does the gay community zero good (within the black comm) to constantly compare the struggle to civil rights and slavery. It will be rejected as well.

Anonymity
2008-11-15 12:29:20

that's what happens when people want revenge or some kind of pay backs but are not explicit about it. Fact is white gay racism is wrong but should not be confussed with black homophobia. Koola is right, the outreach for the sake of displaying some kind of token respect is nonsense, whether it was done or not - it would not solve black homophobia.

Valendra
2008-11-15 20:01:08

JasmyneStateAlum gul, thanks for finally gettin dat mouf shut!

Again, college degrees has nothing to do with the subject of Jasmyne Cannick on O'Reilly I believe your thoughts are both interesting AND scary cuz they suggest you went to college and came out dumber and more socially inept than the average high school sophmore.

Furthermore since you chose the subject, college isn't about forcing others to do as you do it includes the ablity to get along socially with those who's views and styles differ from your own.

People may not wish to slap dat proverbial"perm" in they heads to appear cultured or to gain respect from peers as you do, they may have their own way of achieving the same goals..who are you with your Jackson State degree to piss on humanity?

Set dat heavy ass of yours down and Please stop embarrasin college graduates and Jackson State University.

JacksonStateAlum
2008-11-15 21:19:11

lol....Not only do I have a B.S (Bachelor's) degree from Jackson State University. Also, I have a M.S. (Master's) degree from Barry Univerisy in Miami Shores, Florida. When you get where I am...that when I'll consider your points or even have another conversation with you. I am offically closing the chapter darling. Wishing you peace and blessing. ;-) ....(Amused)

o'reilly lover
2008-11-15 22:17:02

First off I must give full disclosure...I am a HUGE supporter of Bill O'reilly. He has supported gays in the past and supports civil unions also. But if he did say that homosexuality is an action, then he is misguided and short-sided. While I do believe that the gay rights and the black civil right movement share similar components, they are dissimilar in many ways and gays and lesbians ,by and large, have it MUCH easier than blacks did when they were in their infancy of fighting for equality. Gays need to be very careful in comparing the two struggles for the gay has made considerable strides in their fairly short time in the movement (approx. 40 years) vis a vis African-Americans (approx. 300 years). By the way, I'm sick of gays bashing O'reilly. He is a fair in most of his assertions and stands up for what's right in this country when few seem to have the cajones to do so. This gay man to proud to say that he inspires me to keep fighting for the American way!!!

Valendra
2008-11-15 22:31:17

Nahh see I'd never wish to be where you are; the 3-way intersection of Insecurity,Despair and Defeat I aint interested in travelin down those paths but thanks anyway.

JasmyneStates you have failed to change the prevailing opinion on Jasmyne Cannicks lame shitty appearance on O'Reilly Factor. No amount of deflection will change that.

Cannick needs to stop trying to be Keith Boykin, (setting her own fires to put out herself) and learn that it is indeed ok to just be JASMYNE CANNICK.

You may now proceed to close out your "chapters" since I already done closed yours.

Please try to stay encouraged sweety.

Josh
2008-11-16 09:45:12

Bill O'Reilly is fair to gays, really? The guy who claimed that lesbian gangs were taking over D.C.? The guy who complained about a high school in IL voting two lesbian girls cutest couple? The guy who was worried that Dumbledore being gay would make kids "tolerant" of gays?

Rowan
2008-11-16 15:26:17

Good points Josh & Midwest guy.... Cannick is pretty divisive... I also agree with the guy that outreach would've done little good-maybe 60% instead of 70% BUT that is something? But still, how easy is it to go as a gay white or black person and preach to a bunch of people that take a 1000 + old book, like it's a source of life-physically? Sheez.

H. Smart
2008-11-16 16:38:55

No outreach in the world is going to stop African Americans from further oppressing the LGBT community. America's power structure is that of a pyramid. African Americans have a lower position in that pyramid, with the LGBT community having an even lower position. Why would African Americans willing give up their power position in a society that is strictly based on "power". You can campaign until your tongue falls off, African Americans are not stupid. They know that it's unethical to ask LGBT citizens to pay taxes...the same taxes that pays for the judge that signs the marriage licenses for straight people, yet denies LGBT citizens the same rights. Taxation without representation, equals illegal. I'll take a wild guess that most of the college educated Americans slept through their Ethics class.
Bill asked if the LGBT struggle is the same as the Civil Rights struggle...of course it is! It all boils down to civil rights. If MLK were alive today he would educate those that think otherwise, on the basic principles of the Civil Rights Act, which some of these bible thumping bigots ought to read verbatim.
Outreach is not the answer, a Supreme Court ruling is the key. This change needs to come from the Supreme Court (again). Let's not forget, it was the majority that kept slavery alive. In cases of civil rights, the majority vote is not the vice to apply to the process.
Hotep!

jay
2008-11-17 17:52:05

Part of appreciating democracy unconditionally is maintaining reverence toward it when elections don't turn out in one's favor. The fact of the matter is that the language of the gay marriage movement is inherently alienating by virtue of the fact that "marriage" is a hetero construct; it is too insulated into one's heterosexual identity to render compromise toward an all-gender/sexuality inclusive construct. As a gay black man, I of course wish gays equal rights as straights under the law. But until gay whites realize that their outrage is rooted in the same entitlement sensibility of white racists who opposed the civil rights movement that they love to reference as both in an inspiration and now a point of contention, and that they need ot find a word other than "marriage" to translate their goals, they will never see themselves benefit from the privileges of legal unions or partnerships under the law in their lifetime. Lastly, what part of the black civil rights movement ever included a proposition on a ballot that was won with no bloodshed, fierce protesting, generational patience and peaceful restraint? Just a bill on ballot does not a revolution make. But this isn't surprising. Like the many straight whites they apparently give a pass on also voting against gay marriage, gay whites so take their positions and identity for granted that they want to compare their movement to the civil rights movement without making the sacrifices that make the black civil rights movement so iconic.

Josh
2008-11-18 09:57:38

I really haven't seen many gay people compare oppression of gays to slavery, but I'm not sure what the difference is between not allowing gay people to marry and not allowing people of different races to marry, unless you don't think gay people and African Americans are equal.

michelle
2008-11-19 14:56:02

I was thinking, its ironic that people with the lowest rates of marriage in this country defeated gay marriage. Then I though about it and it makes sense. Some say black churches were behind this vote, I am not sure this is true but lets be honest folks, the black church is made up primarily of black women who are very unlikely to ever get married in their lifetime. Besides the biblical issues some say there is, it could on some basic level seem like one more piece of competition for black women. (yeah yeah yeah, I know that gay men dont want black women, read what I am writing, I am talking about how black women may feel) Just because gays identify with the civil rights movement does not mean that african americans share the same view. Their identification with us, when it comes to justifying their struggle, is in the end convenient. They didnt reach out to the black community. They didnt reach out to the community before the vote and have missed many opportunities to build bridges with the community in the past. Remember black women, are the fastest growing populations Aids population.

Bob Lablah
2008-11-19 16:25:43

Michelle the population of blacks in California is too low to have made a significant difference in this gay marriage election b/s. Supposedly they make up 6% of the population. I honestly doubt it is that high out there. Every community that was once black out there has been overrun with mexicans. This b/s sounds like a starting point for the republicans to start nibbling at Obama's support by harping on this foolish gay marriage shit. There are gay churches and such for the ignorant who just have to march down an aisle and stand before a human being who had to pay tuition to get his or her degree in theology to say these people are now "married in the eyes of god". Since the beginning of time people have mated, had children and lived happily ever after without religion even being brought into the picture. You do not have to go through all of this just to show love for someone. This is all a show for the weak minded who need the crutch called religion. The human rights campaign is nothing more than a convenient arm of the republican party. I bet if you check the political beliefs of the hierachy of the HRC you will find many are republican.

nik
2008-11-20 00:51:19

Why is this even an issue in 2008 where something like gay marriage has to be put into a law? The biggest mistake was people, including gays, for even voting for or against this Proposition 8. This prop is another trap set up by old time politics to have people worked up over something that has little to no bearing on people's everyday lives. What gay people do in their lives doesn't affect me or anyone else, so why should anyone care about a man or a woman marrying someone of the same gender? We are in one of the worst economic times in history with the inevitable fears growing of another possible terrorist attack happening again under the Obama presidency. People need to stop getting sucked into the politrix and take these lawmakers head on so issues like Proposition 8 never make it on any ballot. All this stuff does it create more chaos and division. We keep talking about change, yet not practicing it, because these lawmakers know how to get the best of the people in dire time by shoveling this garbage and we just keep eating it up.

Heru Ammen
2008-11-21 11:56:02

What fascinates me is that in black churches all across this country; especially within the black charismatic Christian community their are gay pastors, gay choir directors, gay members, gay deacons, gay elders...etc. Yet it is the black church and black people in general that are the most vocal homophobic group in this country and (in a twist of irony) the ones in our community speaking the loudest against the gay community happen to be gays. I could care less if two men or women marry and decide to raise a family. It's not going to destroy my world view or cause me or my wife, sons or daughter to become gay. African Americans need to grow up become truly enlightened, and learn to accept all people for their reality.

V. Fields
2008-11-21 12:36:11

It may take some time for LGBT rights to flourish but it will happen. These bible thumpers don't live forever and their children don't hold the same views...I still think it's a sad day in history when my race of people deny anyone the right to be happy...This is 2008 and we cannot continue to live in ignorance nor equate the bible as being God that's not only absurd but it's idolatry.

Human Rights or Theocracy ?
2008-11-21 14:39:35

It's Black vs Gay It's Church vs Human Rights It reminds me a controversial article on an Asian managine written by a Vietnamese American. Although a lot of offensive and bias in his article, but he did point out one thing clear and true -- Black American are too tied up to Christianity and can not see outside of the box. Ironically, W Bush is in the same situation, which eventually led to his failure.

Michelle
2008-11-23 17:56:56

Josh, you made a lot of valid points, but I didn't agree with everything that you said and this response is not really to oppose what you said, but to clear up a couple of things. First off, I am a Bi Black female and I, like others in the gay community was very disappointed about the passing of Proposition 8. I too want to be able to marry who I want to marry and be legally recognized for that union, so that nobody outside of that union, especially "the next of kin", can take anything of what I built with my partner. But, like Cannick said I can understand why it happened. And for the record Josh, I do agree with most, not all of what Cannick said. So with that in mind, this is my take on the entire situation. The white gay community can't seem to understand that you need more than a pamphlet, or a flyer to explain to Black people why Proposition 8 is a terrible injustice to all people, and not just to the gay community. No offense, but a lot of people, especially people who are not Black don't understand why it was so difficult for a Black man or Black woman to separate church and politics. The role that the church played with Blacks is historical and generational. When Blacks didn't even have laws on their side. When laws didn't even allow Black people to marry one another during slavery times, there was the church to help validate a Black man or woman's humanity. Black churches were our support system. If you needed a place to stay, they helped find you a place. If you needed money, they would give you money to help you pay for some of your bills. So yes, if you were to approach an old fashioned Black woman or man who was raised in the church, with traditional old fashioned views, they would vote yes for Proposition 8 'til the Earth's last days and nothing could be done to change their views. But, if you were to approach some of the younger generation of Black people and to more contemporary Blacks and explain why Proposition 8 is just overall a terrible thing, then you would get the support against Proposition 8. Like, with the Presidential campaign, you have to be very strategic and very tenacious. You can't possibly think that a few days of campaigning is going to do it. In the same way that it took years for us to have our first Black President, it would take some time to change people viewpoints on this issue of gay marriage. Another thing that's not even mentioned is that a lot of whites said yes to to Proposition 8. They had to. I mean yes, 70% of Blacks voted for Proposition 8, but that's just one demographic. I want to know how many Hispanics and whites voted for and against Proposition 8. I want to see the numbers. I want to see how many whites voted overall, and then compare those numbers to how many whites voted yes to Proposition 8. When you show me those numbers then we can take this topic from there. But Blacks shouldn't be solely blame for Proposition 8 passing. I am not saying that because I am a Black female, I am saying that because it is fair to say. Blacks don't make up for the majority of the U.S. population and until this Presidential campaign, they didn't make up the majority of the people who voted. It was like that when I was an gay activist back in my hay days over 16 years ago. Racism existed within the gay community back then, the same way it does now. And the gay community, both Blacks and Whites were fighting for gay marriage to be legally recognized back then and blaming Blacks again, for the same way bills and other legislation not getting past. Josh there are a lot of White gays are racist. The same way there are Black gays who are racist and it is those racists people that are using this situation as an opportunity to point fingers and blame one another and not try to resolve anything so in the future Proposition 8 won't even be an issue. So in conclusion of what I was saying before. The gay community should find out out why things happen in the way they do. Stop trying to put blame and start finding some type of resolution, so rights of all people can be honored.

Notice: COMMENTS DO NOT APPEAR IMMEDIATELY
To see your comment, wait approximately two minutes, then simply refresh the page.
Report issues/abuses to suggestions@thedailyvoice.com

Leave a comment

Today's news

NEWS UPDATES

More News Headlines

RECENT NEWS

MAY CALENDAR

May 7: Monthly unemployment numbers released

Name
Email Address
URL